Should state primary be doing more? And what should we do as parents?

[Wildwild]

DD has just finished year 1 at our local primary school. There’s loads we love about it, it’s at the top of our road and the catchment is really small so all her friends live within a five minute walk. This means it has a really great community feel. Her teachers have been lovely, she’s got a nice group of friends and seems happy there. For what it’s worth, the school received an outstanding Ofsted rating a few years ago which was maintained just before Christmas when they were inspected.

Whenever I have got any feedback (usually at parents evening) the teachers have said that she is performing well above average. Her year 1 teacher said she was so far ahead she could in theory skip Y2 and just go into key stage 2 but they’re not allowed to do that (and I’d hate her to be singled out from her peers). Apparently their main concern is that she’ll be bored and become disengaged.

But nobody is telling me how I can resolve this. They give the odd bit of homework sporadically on Google classroom but she does it in 30 seconds and asks for more. They never send home spellings or times tables. My mum (ex primary teacher) just keeps telling me I should move her to private but I can’t afford it.

I was wondering whether I should go to see the new class teacher at the beginning of term and ask her about how the school differentiate brighter children so they’re being challenged and what we as parents can do to support her. But I’m really conscious of being “that” parent!

Any teachers around who can advise? Am I over thinking and should just go with the flow or should I be doing something more? Should I get her a private tutor to give her new challenges or will she end up further ahead? Should I turn up at the local prep school and get her to read a copy of the Sunday Times to them and see if they can help with the fees?! (This last one is light hearted)

Definitely do extra work with her, I missed a lot of primary school due to moving etc however I read loads and wasn't really allowed to watch much so would stay there whilst my parents had the news on - not saying do this necessarily, but it meant over time I got used to loads of words and complex ideas over time, even though initially I didn't understand it at all, I understand it quicker over time. They'll be loads on books, worksheets you can use for her, but I'd just say font only focus on English and Maths, do a little bit of history, geography, and different subjects where you can - not directly but I'm sure as she gets older they'll be other books, and try and give her breath of subjects and books (give her ones which slightly frustrate her and then you can go over the words, and she can learn resilience in a way, it's hard initially but if she keeps on trying then she gets it sort of thing). I actually think the skipping years thing is one of the things England is more weird internationally in not doing, lots of cousins and extended family skipped years if they could get a certain level a year or two ahead - doing tests etc. When I lived abroad, when I was very young, as did my siblings (a little bit older) we all skipped 1 school year and they would have skipped others if we didn't move here.

You’re over-thinking it and your mother sounds silly.

If your DD is happy at school, what would be the point of her being "stretched" to do more advanced work? Where do you envisage it leading? Would you really want her working on her own, doing something different from all the other children in the class, then going to university at 15?

Read with her, talk to her, play with her, take her to museums and castles and art galleries, encourage her to take up hobbies, learn new sports, play a musical instrument.

The school has been judged outstanding, so what more do you want? Let them do their job. No doubt there will be more work sent home as she gets older.

School is about a lot more than literacy and maths. Unless she complains - unprompted by you or your mother - about being bored or unhappy there, stop worrying and let her enjoy her childhood. If she’s bright and going to a good school she will make her own way to success in life.

But what is the point of skipping school years (other than letting parents boast)? Children just end up in classes with older, bigger, more socially advanced classmates - for what advantage? I don’t see it as particularly desirable to finish school or go to university early. Life doesn’t just suddenly begin once you finish university - it’s been there all the time.

Look into the private school option. My nephew had similar and won a bursary place at year 3 to an independent school. It was a 100% bursary with uniform help. It’s probably rare for a primary school but worth asking around. She went on to win scholarships for secondary school but went to a grammar in the end.

We teach for greater depth and mastery in the UK rather than teaching the next year groups content. I’ve been a year 1 teacher for 8 years and whilst I’ve had very able children, I’ve never had any I would say could just skip year 2. The jump in content is quite big. Is she using commas in a list naturally when writing? Is she using apostrophes correctly and her past and present tense including irregular verbs? Can she use subordination correctly and accurately? These are all things you can develop at home through lots of activities. In maths can she work mentally rather than writing it down? Can she add through multiples of ten so rather than using a column method she can partition numbers to help her get to a multiple of ten then add the rest?

open ended reasoning and problem solving questions are the best for higher attaining students. If you search white rose maths barvember you’ll get a lot of previous problems they do using bar models to help them explain and find the answers.

As long as she’s happy and enjoying school I’d let her enjoy being 6 for the foreseeable future. There’s so much time to worry about academic abilities and actually she won’t ever get the time again to just be little and have fun at primary school.

Agree so much with the recent posters. What is your aim in all this “pushing and stretching”? They all end up in the same place doing their exams. If she’s happy and has friends that’s a precious thing. You don’t want an out of place child being isolated for bring different. My mum was pushed ahead and ended up at university at 17 which wasn’t ideal.

Both ours were far ahead but on one aspect only reading and literature. We made sure we had stacks of books in the house and we read and talked about them as a family.

I’m relaxed about primary school as mine was absolutely rubbish (tiny village school with old bored coasting teachers) yet numerous peers got to Oxford / Cambridge /ucl and now have extremely flying jobs despite this.

I have a child who is very able in maths and science, much more average in English and other language based subjects. Generally I would say see how different teachers cope with your child. A good school should be able to push a child in subjects they are good at, just as much as they are able to support the weaker children.

This was my ds1. We made sure he had challenging reading - and plenty of choice of what to read, so library challenges, etc as well as his own books - and ours - at home. He played maths games incessantly - he always demanded quizzes at meal times, and then had fun with us exploring everything we did at weekends/holidays. Fortunately I'm a literature/languages/history buff and his dad is a scientist so we could mix n match activities. In between all of this, he went to school for friendships and sport. He behaved, and although he wasn't challenged there, he still has positive memories of the school which was a happy village type school. He was still quite bored in lessons at secondary too - extra curricular stuff kept him going - but still achieved top grades and went onto Oxbridge.

So I would say that learning to be bored is ok, and understanding that learning is a life long challenge which can happen anywhere, can be good. (I guess I thought of him as homeschooled at weekends and evenings. We were free, however to learn about everything and anything - I remember us getting into a long discussion about compound interest, when he was about 5, which he spent the next few days exploring, because he could!

Hope that helps. Best of luck.

Lol. @TheaBrandt1 has said the same as me but much more succinctly!

I assume by long addition and long subtraction you mean column method? That might be year 2, certainly introduced by y3. However my preference with a very able child would be encouraging lots of informal mental methods (which is a big part of the y3 curriculum). For example, partitioning in to to hundreds, tens and units and adding that way, or compensating (eg to add 99, add 100 and subtract 1), or use of near doubles or known facts. Children who are taught to rely on column methods early can become lazy with mental arithmetic and you find them defaulting to a column method to solve eg 1000- 996 or 250+250.

Long multiplication is y4/5 I think and long division is y6. (Long division is mostly unnecessary in my opinion and I would only teach it to the more able ones in y5/6, short division is easier for most in most situations.) Is she fluent in all her times tables up to 12x12? I wouldn’t bother with these methods until she is.

I do sympathise OP as my daughter is also very capable and just finished y1 and I don’t feel she’s been pushed at all. I’m an ex primary teacher and have focused on things like rainbows (she loves completing the badges!), and other extra curricular. She can read almost anything now so I don’t worry much about decoding, but we read books like Enid Blyton, roald Dahl etc together as the plots are more complicated than the ones she comes across at school (her school give almost everyone the same book so she’s still on stage 8 ORT despite the fact she could have read them 18 months ago). In terms of maths I push the mental methods but to be honest only when it comes up naturally in every day conversations.

I would speak to the teacher though, I intend to at the start of the year. Yes I can stretch at home but I do wish she didn’t waste so much time doing stuff that’s so easy in maths and phonics lessons.

I don't know that anything extra is needed from school at this age. My elder DC was quite ahead at that age. For example she and one other kid had to do guided reading groups with the year above as they were quite a way ahead of their classmates. There were times when she flew through her classwork, but primary is a lot about life skills, friendships, turn taking etc.

It honestly hasn't hurt my DC not to be pushed and stretched. She is waiting for A level results now (from a comp followed by 6th form college) and has a similar academic profile to people she knows who attended grammar/independent schools. If you really are after a stretch of some kind I'd consider extracurricular music. It can fill as much time as you can devote to it, and there's always something more challenging to learn, plus orchestral instruments offer amazing cameradie, team building and social opportunities

But your child WAS stretched - they were put with a higher year group for a subject they excelled in!

Unfortunately since the 2014 curriculum was embedded that sort of thing is very rare. It’s all about keeping the whole class together to avoid anyone getting too behind (an admirable aim but impossible in reality) and ‘mastery’ (read: making children practice skills they can already do in different ways, which may or may not challenge them.)

No life doesn't begin around univeristy. Plus the countries where it's done, parents honeslty have no say, and can't push for it just because they want it. It's done for the kids because they have the capacity to adapt to social skills of older children (it only 1 or 2 years at a time) and they find the work at their level and a little bit higher so they're pushed more. It means there's more of a focus from staff on pushing those who are doing well to do better and being more ambitious. Lots of countries internationally do it, and it works well if a child had social difficulties then they'd likely not be put up as that has an impact on understanding academic context. It's not about the parents, rather the children and pushing them and also making them enjoy learning because they are actually learning. It's not about rushing them out of school, they don't always skip the same years as well, obviously they may be called something different. But some children would skip y7, others y5, some children begin to develop massively quickly and it's not that strange internationally as a whole to do so. I also wouldn't say those parents want it for the bragging, different cultures have different views and generally even when their children are doing very well, they aren't bragging but wanting them to do better. I'm just reflecting on different school systems and different countries across the world it's very common and works well when done well.

This. You'll need to add things in yourself.

Start her on simple puzzles and buy her a diary to write what was the best thing that happened each day.. Join the local library and help her explore it. And teach her simple science like how to grow radishes in the garden.

It will get worse. By year 5 I was adding in maybe an extra 50% because ds was so bored. The staff were focused on getting everyone through SATs which I understand, but that's not good for everyone.

There’s lots of good advice on this thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/gifted_and_talented/5317841-primary-school-experience?reply=146266383

I would leave her where she is, not an unreasonable question to ask if they are able to differentiate for her though

This. I had dc who were " ahead" during their school years. They appreciated the fact they could complete tasks easily.

Teach her to be an independent learner, it will stand her in good stead later. So if she is getting bored she needs to ask/ look for other things to do. Maybe you could send a book into school for her to read when she's finished her work or encourage her to write stories. At home get her to play logic games like https://poki.com/en/g/traffic-escape or https://www.mathplayground.com/logic-games.html

When she is older maybe look into learning a language.

I understand what you’re saying and that it’s the norm in some countries but it still sounds odd and unnecessary to me. You see "pushing" children as something positive - I don’t, necessarily! Of course it’s wrong if children are bored but a good school will always provide extra extension activities within the same class, or just have higher expectations of some children, and good parents will make sure their children have plenty of out-of-school activities and hobbies to challenge them.

I still think the social disadvantages of a child being with classmates who might be nearly two years older outweigh any possible advantages. Even a year can make a big difference to maturity levels. It’s miserable for a youngster who’s been "pushed" to be in a class where everyone but them can do things they can’t (e.g. see certain films, learn to drive, drink in a pub). I just don’t see the advantages. "Learning" doesn’t have to happen only in school.

Yeah, fair point 😁. But what I was getting at us this was literally one hours' weekly session for one academic year while the other kids caught up a bit. The stretching doesn't need to be constant or intense.

Secondary English teacher here...my advice would be chill because honestly, secondary is hard and it's nice that they've enjoyed primary.

From an academic perspective, the ones who thrive at KS3/4 are the ones who've done lots of enrichment with families - reading for pleasure, library, museums, theatre, walks out, talking with each other, baking...it's irreplaceable and develops so much critical thinking, creativity and logic that just can't be made up for in the classroom because the curriculum is so big. Plus this stuff is fun...let your child lead on their interests.

Yeah you have a different perspective which is fair enough. I've seen it work lots of times in different environments, with myself and other peers and it's work well, when done well, and I don't see the social issues arising, these kids normally adapt well and enjoy having deeper conversations and can get with it pretty well. I think you've seen on this thread, many good schools aren't pushing kids with extension activities and extra work, because they have limits with focusing on kids not achieving (for good reasons as well). I think though it's in the teacher standards, sometimes it's instinctive to focus on low achieving students first. Plus the bits about watching certain films etc, the years jumped tend to be 1 or 2 at a time, occasionally I've seen 3 but not as common. So the flim issue isn't really there as the rating are what 12,15,18 (not that those are really followed, many children watch things earlier and can't understand them) and it's unlikely they'd fall into the categories of age restrictions and that isn't in my view a good enough reason to not do it. They're are social benefits as well, those children can have the more intellectual conversations, even on simple topics that they want to have and not always feel pulled back by the rest of the class. I understand why you have reservations, but I was just reflecting on my experiences and the structures ans systems in many countries which do this well and see the positives. It doesn't mean everyone has to do it, just was strange for some of my extended family to find out it wasn't an option here, and to be fair, I do think when counted its a slight majority of countries who do allow it compared to those who don't. My cousins for example, skipped multiple years across school, and I'd definitely say we were on the same levels (including my siblings) and they were socially lacking and could have the conversations needed etc and they enjoyed skipping years and being challeneged (I've seen this in research etc, and obviously anecdotes are facts).

My child was exactly the same. Started school nursery at 3 and from 3 1/2 was put into reception on a morning to do phonics, reading and maths with them.

They found primary school very easy but still was engaged and enjoyed it. I got Letts books that they enjoyed doing as ‘extra homework’ We read a lot. Learnt times tables.

Secondary school was in sets so being in top sets helped. Also did lots of reading and chose to learn extra languages on Duolingo.

Encourage reading and extra learning but just be led by your child. Also try and have lots of play sessions with other children - social skills and fun are equally as important.

One thing we did was arrange private language classes with a small group of other parents. They don’t do languages at state in primary. We had a little group of 6 who had a weekly class with a private teacher. Both mine were then familiar with learning a language and both ended up doing a language for a level. Dd1 doing a degree joint honours one a language.