Need advice on school conduct!

[TickyMonster]

Hi! Not sure if there is anyone on here that may be able to help but I thought it was worth a try. It’s a long story so I apologise in advance!

We’re having some problems with my son’s school (he’s 5 and has an autism diagnosis).
He came home from school last week with a bruise and a lump on his forehead, but no accident slip or phone call. I asked him what happened and he said he had bumped it on a post at school, and he told me that he was crying and that he told his teacher and showed her. We’ve had incidences before where he’s not informed his teacher about issues as he does struggle with this due to his autism, so I was really pleased that he had told her.
Anyway, when I dropped him off the following morning I brought this up and said we don’t get an accident slip. We were told that no one was aware he had hurt himself, but my son was with me and said he told his teacher. They asked his teacher (I was waiting in reception at this point) and she said that he didn’t tell her he was hurt. I left it at that as I couldn’t hang around the school all day, but would let my husband know what had been said so we could try and have a meeting after school with them.
We emailed them a few hours later to request a meeting with the Head and didn’t get a reply. When we went to collect him from school my husband saw the Head in passing and asked if we could talk about what had happened, as we were not satisfied after speaking to the school that morning. She told him to speak to the class teacher, which he then did. This is where things begin to escalate. I should probably also mention at this point that my husband is a school governor, and has been for about 18 months, with no issues whatsoever.
He waited until all the kids and parents had gone, then spoke to the teacher and a TA at the classroom door and explained that he feels like we’re being fobbed off and that we’re still none the wiser about how our son managed to hurt himself with no grown ups noticing. His teacher responded by saying that she doesn’t appreciate him calling her a liar (which neither of us had said at any point) and that she can assure us ‘as the adult’ she was not informed that he had been hurt. The conversation went round is circles for a few minutes, until the TA said that we were obviously getting nowhere with the conversation and my husband agreed and left. My husband didn’t raise his voice, he didn’t act aggressively, he is not that kind of person AT ALL, he’s a Labrador type.
When we were walking home my husband received an email from the school saying that he is now not allowed to speak to any of the staff in my son’s class as his behaviour was reported to the Head as being aggressive and intimidating. We were absolutely gobsmacked and my husband is very upset that they have used this accusation as this is simply not true. The email said this is following on from other reports about his behaviour throughout the year. We have NEVER been told or warned about behaviour before, so I have no idea where this has come from! The following morning we received another email regarding his position as a governor from the Head. She has stated that due to the event that happened the day before it is untenable for him to continue as a Governor and that he should resign. She said if he didn’t they would have to hold a meeting (which she specified he would not be allowed to attend) to discuss his removal.
We emailed back asked for details of the previous complaints about his behaviour that she mentioned, she replied to other parts of the email but completely glossed over that part and didn’t divulge a single thing! Their own policy states that an Incident Report should be made and issued to the offending party if someone were to make claims of inappropriate behaviour - we’ve received nothing until now.
We are concerned that the governing board will not be impartial as the Head is the one gunning for my husbands removal and of the 8 governors on the board 4 of them (including the Chair) work at the school! We have emailed the Chair and asked for a meeting, we’re still waiting on a reply 4 days later.
It all seems so shady, like they know they have done wrong and instead of apologising they are trying to silence us. My son would definitely have cried if he hit his head hard enough to leave a bruise and a lump (bruising still hasn’t gone 9 days later) and no one noticed? They have said there was 3 staff in the room at the time, but how could they know that if they don’t know when it happened?
Ultimately, it seems to have been blown completely out of proportion, and the moment I said my son had a bump on the head at school but I hadn’t had a note they were on the defensive.
Do I have enough to make a complaint about the school? And do we have a right to view the alleged complaints that have been made against us? I don’t know where to go from here but I don’t want to give up.
I apologise for any typos in advance, I have had 3 hours sleep and wrote this at 4 in the morning 🤣
Any and all opinions and advice welcome!
Thank you if you made it this far, you deserve a cookie.

What type of Governor is he? If he’s been elected by the other parents, he can’t be removed

He’s a parent governor. I believe he can be removed under extreme circumstances - I don’t believe this is an extreme circumstance. The Head has said he has breached the Conduct Rules by acting aggressively, but I think she knows that she will struggled to have him removed which is why she is pressuring him to resign. @Siddalee

I would think about what kind of relationship with the school you want going forward, rather than about who is right or wrong.

If I was your husband I wouldn't fight the Head over remaining governor.

Yes, you can make a formal complaint to the school about what happened to your son but it will be investigated by the governing body.

Your son is still very young, I would seriously consider cutting my losses and finding a new school for September.

As a parent governor he can be suspended for six months but cannot be removed.

You have spoken to the class teacher and are not satisfied. I would proceed to Stage 2 of the complaints procedure and request a meeting with the headteacher.

@legoplaybook My son has 1 year left at this school (it’s only an infant school). All of his friends are there, he’s doing amazingly well, it’s a short walk away for us and he is very much looking forward to starting Year 2 in September. I refuse to uproot my child’s life because the school feel they can bully us. I get where you are coming from, the thought crossed my mind at one point, but I don’t want to be pushed out. It’s not fair on my son.

@Charmatt we have tried to arrange a meeting previously to no avail. We are currently trying to arrange a meeting with both the Head and the Chair but, again, we are waiting on a reply

I’d contact the National Governance Association for advice on that.
Im a former HT and my memory is that it’s really, really difficult to remove an elected Governor (not that I ever tried). I think the only time it happened in my LA (that I knew about), LA officers had to get involved. If that were the case here, I expect the school would do anything to avoid getting them involved.

I’d follow the advice of using the formal complaints policy. There should be three stages to the policy - at stage three the school has to involve someone independent to the school to hear the complaint.
And you’re right, you shouldn’t have to move your happy, settled child because the school isn’t getting it right

I had a big issue with the head at my younger daughter's school in year 6. I involved the sendiass team, who accompanied me to a meeting with her. Head had 100% supported her teacher when he was quite clearly in the wrong, as she only discovered during the meeting.

Sendiass we're all about how to move forward rather than drag over the incident and I never received the apology I wanted (until something else happened during the last week of term which completely vindicated me - head was mortified).

Anyway, your husband may be in the right but that doesnt mean they wont all gang up against him at whatever level you take your complaint.

But think about involving sendiass re your relationship going forward.

I moved my ASD DS from our local village primary school because he came home and told me (matter of factly and because I asked) that X had happened in class today. When I talked to the teacher she and then later the HT told me my son was lying. I moved him ASAP after that. Am so glad I did. I could have argued with them but what would have been the point? It wasn't about point scoring: I was trying to understand what had happened; they just outright lied (and I knew my son wouldn't lie -- it was something about him, and it didn't involve anyone else other than him). The school he went to was much better at supporting him.

If you are not getting any reply from the headteacher, I would make a report to your LA Designated Officer - if there are safeguarding concerns and the complaints procedure is not being followed, then that's a concern

@TickyMonster Oh dear!

I do feel you have been over zealous in pursuit of the injury note. I guess you must have considered your DS told you what you wanted to hear! Speak to a teacher you told him so he reported to you that he did. The teacher, a qualified professional, says he didn’t. Might she actually be correct?

You have elected to go to war over a minor bump. I think your DH wanted special consideration because he is a governor and that’s a poor choice too. As he’s YR I guess your DH has not done
much training yet. It was a huge mistake to wade in. He’s arguing with a teacher about a minor issue for DS. Maybe you should have spoken to the teacher.

The GB can remove him. It’s in the Governance Guide. It has to be a majority decision. With 8, I assume the chair gets to vote twice if it’s all square. It’s clearly not going to be a great working relationship going forward is it? Does he want to continue? The head cannot remove him or make suggestions but the sheep will follow the lead I expect. Don’t be hounded out but keep quiet.

Contact Governor Services in your LEA.

If it's only a year left and you are prepared to fight them, then go for it.
You can complain about the class teacher and about the Head trying to remove your husband as governor.
It's not going to be a pleasant year though.

Wow they’ve escalated what is at best a minor error and at worst a misunderstanding into something huge, FAST.

They seem to be very defensive over this and acting a bit unprofessional. Even if let’s say your child has made an error, they are being a bit petty trying to remove your husband. And let’s say the teacher made an error by not sending an accident report, why not just admit the error and apologise?

I’m an ex primary teacher and could never understand how senior management and teachers could not be questioned on anything ever. They always close ranks in my experience.

The fact that the TA was there and felt the need to step in to highlight that the conversation was going nowhere indicates that your husband was not communicating pleasantly. Did he repeatedly tell her that your son informed him of the headbump and therefore the teacher must have known? While that isn't the same as calling the teacher a liar, it is very strongly insinuating it. Quite likely the teacher was also communicating unpleasantly, given the TA intervened rather than the teacher calling it to an end because it was pointless.

Surely the conversation goes:
"He has a big bump on his head. He says X happened and he told you. Is that right?"
"No. I don't know about this."
"Oh. Son, are you sure you told teacher?"
"Yes. I did"
"See. He says he did tell you. I don't think he would lie, but perhaps there is another explanation."
"I don't know. Maybe I didn't hear him"
"I suppose. How can we work together to support him to be more assertive."
"Let me think about that and come back to you"

1 minute. I suspect it's not the conversation that your husband had, and I suspect that isn't entirely the teacher's fault.

@TizerorFizz why do you assume the teacher is a man? She’s not, btw. I believed my son as he very rarely lies about anything, and he’d have no reason to lie about this. Another boy in his class also said that he had told the teacher - he was called a liar too. Even if the teacher wasn’t told, which is possible, the fact remains that my child suffered a head injury and no one even noticed, let alone reported it, which is a safeguarding issue. He dislocated his elbow last July at the same school. I suppose that in your mind that was of little significance too.

You may think that your child banging their head is of no concern but I don’t.

The chair can not be a staff member?

@ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot The teacher is very adverse to speaking to any of the parents about anything. I went to speak to her with one of the other Mums about what time to show up to the school (I was volunteering and didn’t know when they would want me there) and she tried to close the door on us before we had even finished speaking. She is not a people person to say the least.
My husband said if our son is lying then that is something we will talk to him about at home. We didn’t raise the issue because “she lied” or “he lied”, we raised it as our son was injured and either no one noticed or no one informed us which, either way, isn’t ideal.

@cabbageking yes, I believe this is accurate, as long as they work more than 500 hours per year. Any idea how I would prove that and who to?
The LA Governor is also an employee.

Op. I’m not really sure why you need a meeting twice in a day to establish a head bump in a 5 year old. What were you hoping to achieve? I don’t blame the teacher from feeling targeted. Even with three adults in a classroom it’s impossible to see every incident in a classroom. Your child may be saying they told the teacher when they didn’t (children say this all the time to try and appease their parents) or they may have told the teacher. As teachers we deal with approximately 50 ailments a day. We try and spot which ones need first aid and which need a little reassurance. Sometimes we are wrong.

I agree with those saying that if the TA had to step in, your husband probably wasn't communicating very well. What can the teacher say, if she didn't know he was hurt, she didn't know. Your son could have said "I hit my head on X at lunch time" she replied "are you OK now" and he said "yes". Your son thinks he's told a teacher, and the teacher doesn't know he's hurt. Neither is lying, there's just different interpretations of the truth.

It's impossible to watch 30 children that closely at all times. There has to be some acceptance that accidents will happen.

What do you want going forward? I'd get your H to resign, see out the year and get on with your life. The alternative is a dragged out process, causing further deterioration in the home/school relationship all for one minor incident and over reaction.

@hopspot I didn’t speak to his teacher at drop off, I spoke to a TA. My husband spoke to the teacher at pick up. Bit of a stretch to call that targeting someone

You spoke to the TA about the teacher. You spoke to the teacher. You then wanted to talk to the head. I don’t understand why.

If the teacher had been informed, they would have filled out an accident slip and given it to you. They literally have nothing to gain and everything to lose by not doing so. Your annoyance at the situation proves it's just not worth it. If they knew, you would have had a letter or phone call. The most logical explanation is that you son is telling you what he knows you want to hear, that he did report it. You acknowledge that your son struggles to report problems, yet you're choosing to believe him over the teacher who has no reason to lie because he "very rarely lies". So he does sometimes then? Of course he does, all children do from time to time, especially if it's what they think you want to hear. You say he'd have no reason to lie. Of course he does. You always tell him he should report problems to the teacher. He knows he should have done, so it's easier to say yes he did rather than have to tell you yet again that he didn't.

You don't need to explicitly call someone a lier to insinuate it, which your husband most definitely did if he's still questioning it despite already being told they didn't know. If the TA needed to defuse the situation, it definitely sounds like it was an intimidating confrontation for them to witness.

It's regrettable that they didn't notice the mark on his head, but these things can take time to come out. Did you notice it straight away when he came out of school? If so, why didn't you question it straight away rather than waiting for the next day? If you didn't notice it instantly, why are you expecting them to? Accidents happen. It really sounds like you and your husband have made a mountain out of a molehill.

@TickyMonster I didn’t think I had said any teacher was a man. I said “might she be correct?” She.

I can see your DS is y1, so he’s 5 or 6. Children simply are not reliable and two adults appear aggrieved at the way they were spoken to over a minor matter that should have been dropped.

The chair and vice chair cannot be an employee of the school so report this to the LA governance section. The staff are clearly ruling the roost here. 8 is a small GB - do they have vacancies? Too few co-opted members I think. How is the GB able to carry out its duties with 4/8 being staff? Poorly I would think. A good gb should evaluate the skills it needs and recruit into them via cooptions. Has this happened?

As DS has one year to go, why not keep your heads down? This could escalate into a power struggle and that’s not good for the school. Is a small bump really worth all of this?

DH doesn’t need to resign. He doesn’t even need to go to meetings. Let them follow removal protocol and wade through it. However it’s not what a gb should do and it’s a diversion from good governance. Which is lacking anyway.