A question about times tables. Teachers? Anyone?

[seeker]

OK, when I was a child (back in the dark ages) children learned their tables by rote. It was boring, but it worked. Now they don't seem to learn them at all at school. My ds is expected to know 2x, 5x and 10x, I think, by the end of year 2. I don't see why by nearly 8 they shouldn't know them all. Once they are learned they are learned forever, and it is such a useful thing to know - even if you never do another bit of formal maths in your life!

There must be a very good reason for dropping learning tables, but I can't for the life of me think what it is. Everything is just SO much easier if you just know that 5x8 is 56!

So does anyone know what the reason is?

really?

how about -- kids need to know their times tables especially children that struggle with maths, and they are more important than a rainforest project or dressing up for roman day etc ad nauseam

children of primary age who will learn their times tables at home without an adult to help them are children who do well under any circumstances

it's not about them

what's not true?

i mean children who will work that way are conscientious hardworking children -- they'll always do well, or achieve their best

i didn't say times tables + doing well under any circumstances

don't take it personally starlight it's not you it's the system
grr

kids don't need to know their times tables?
so why do they teach them?

and dressing up is more important than maths?

are you a teacher? this is interesting

I think you are really on the wrong track.

It's not complicated.

Times tables are used in fractions, geometry, are a huge part of chunking, algebra and just about any part of every day maths.

Children who struggle with understanding the concept of numbers will benefit from knowing times tables off by heart -- mainly because when working with higher maths they do not need to think about the simple multiplication and division parts, and can concentrate on the more difficult functions.

Children at infant and early primary level are at a great age to learn by rote.

Learning by rote is quick and simple and can be reinforced daily.

It is like learning spelling and punctuation: you can expand in literature and literacy with these essential tools.

All other maths will be a chore if, in addition to the difficult processes they need to understand, they have to undergo the laborious process of multiplication and division everytime. It is an unnecessary distraction.

I cannot imagine why this is difficult to understand!

I just can't address the issue of dressing up being maths. I just can't.

And I'm really sorry Starlight but I don't see your issue with my other point.

If there are children who will work on times tables, on their own, at home, no doubt they are conscientious children.

They are therefore very likely to do well.

What's not to understand?

Ok I still don't know my tables nor can I spell. Mental block I think. Strangly I have had a job working with numbers and complex number relatedissues and had no problems whatsoever. Got promoted infact. CALCULATOR was a great invention!!!

I'm sorry it hasn't worked for you -- maybe that's affected your view?

I think they probably ahev time to learn the concept of numbers too.

I'm only talking about 15 mintues every day.

It's pointless to talk about what they do at home because some parents just don't or can't.

That's why children go to school.

The teachers have taught them-they understand why 6x7 is quicker than adding up 6, 7times.They can do it themselves -but the teacher cannot make them learn it-they have to make the effort. It is easy to play games with it at home. All my pupils have good parental support, unfortunately if they don't they have to rely on school but it makes sense that they will be quicker if they practise when not at school. If I were to go to an evening class to learn Spanish I would not do very well if I were not to practise between lessons.The Spanish teacher can teach me the language, she isn't responsible for making me learn it. The same with music, the piano teacher teaches something new and the pupil practises before the next lesson. The pupil is responsible for their own learning-I can't do it for them. Some might have photographic memories and see them and remember, others might find it really difficult and need months of practise.
They need instant recall. One of the first questions in this years Mental Maths SATs was 8x7, there were 5 seconds to answer, it should have taken one second to write 56, if they had to work it out they were in difficulties because the CD gave 5 seconds and they were onto the next question.

It is not the best use of a teacher's time to be spending too long doing something they could practise a few minutes each day at home.They don't actually need a parent-they could do it on their own.

Haven't read all the replies but this used to be a bugbear with me - the children are expected to have instant recall of their times tables and the only way they can have that imo is to learn by rote - yet they are not taught that way (at least not in our school).

I teach it by rote-we chant them, count in them backwards as well as forwards, play 'follow me' games, fizz buzz, quick on the draw,bingo, beat the clock speed tests etc. They still need to practise at home. Are you sure they don't do this at your school GrapefruitMoon?
They can do games on line if you try this page
My class particularly love Countdown (not just tables)and are very quick.

I don't think you would have had time StarlightMckenzie, the questions get harder and they are not allowed to write anything when time is up at the end. I only know mine because I learnt them at junior school, I can do it on automatic pilot now.