A question about times tables. Teachers? Anyone?

[seeker]

OK, when I was a child (back in the dark ages) children learned their tables by rote. It was boring, but it worked. Now they don't seem to learn them at all at school. My ds is expected to know 2x, 5x and 10x, I think, by the end of year 2. I don't see why by nearly 8 they shouldn't know them all. Once they are learned they are learned forever, and it is such a useful thing to know - even if you never do another bit of formal maths in your life!

There must be a very good reason for dropping learning tables, but I can't for the life of me think what it is. Everything is just SO much easier if you just know that 5x8 is 56!

So does anyone know what the reason is?

DD2, in year 3, has just 'passed' her 8x tables and only has 9x left to learn, which I think she pretty much knows anyway. I doubt if I knew mine much earlier than that.

Hulababy - they only do up to 10x in schools now!

Message withdrawn

DD's school def does up to 12x still.

But we def started them later than DD apears to be doing. I didn't start times tables in infants at all.

Really, Seeker. I'm pretty sure my Y6 DD knows her 11s and 12s. I must check .

StarlightMcKenzie -how do you do them on your fingers?

i can do 9's on fingers but not other ones.

i cannot learn them by rote

have you tried this?

If they know their tables up to 10x then they know 11x and 12x except for 11x11 , 12x11 and 12x12.
They should see the pattern-if they know 2x, then 4x is double. If 3x3=9 then 3x6 will be 18.

Legacy, Timez Attack looks brilliant. I'm just downloading it now.
Due to my crap dial-up connection it's estimated that it will take over 3 hours to download though, so I hope it's worth it

Why go up to twelve with each times table now we measure in metres and don't have pounds shilling and pence. In NZ it seems to be 10x is where it all ends.

At my dd's secondary school they say that all maths - particularly mental maths becomes easier if you know your tables up to 15x! It's just a whole set of calculations you don't have to do again every time.

Yes, that is very interesting, but also immensely complicated and time-consuming compared to just knowing that 8x7 is 56.

I take your point, StarlightM, that it probably is quick once you get used to it.

That is very interesting, though, Starlight, about not being able to learn things by rote. Does that mean that you can't ever learn the words to a song or a poem? Is there a clear distinction in your learning between 'rote' and 'non-rote'? For me, there's just a kind of progression between all kinds of memory, with 'rote' at one end of it.

Seeker I can't add much but just want to say I completely agree with you. If children have trouble understanding numbers, at least they will know their times tables and that will help them a lot, with fractions, geometry, algebra...even if they don't understand them they will know them.

it's just out of fashion so you have to do it yourself with them
not you, i mean everyone

it makes me so cross

Tables are not out of fashion!
I teach year 5 and they all know their tables. We do speed tests, play lots of games etc. Their job at home is to learn them thoroughly. I can tell the ones that learn them because they are the ones that can beat the stop watch on my table grid test,(they all know them but some have to work them out rather than have the instant recall).

"their job at home is to learn them thoroughly.."

so if they don't do it at home, or don't have parents to help them, what happens?

why not just chant them in the classroom for 15 minutes every day

what about the children who don't have support at home
why don't the teachers teach them

by them, i mean the tables not the children