Does anyone else think children shouldn't start school till they're 7?

[FossilSister]

DD is 5 and currently in Year 1. I found myself being asked to fill in a school survey:

"Is homework set and marked regularly?" "Are lessons well-planned and effective?" etc.

Apart from the fact that I can't even know this stuff, what does it really matter? Shouldn't they be asking "Does your child like school?" "Is your child happy?"

Shouldn't we be a bit bothered about work life balance for our 5 year olds? What can they do at home between the tea bath bed rush that they couldn't in 6 hours of school.

I love my kids school. It's great and she is happy, I just wish she was doing nature walks and playing, not sitting at a table all day when she isn't old enough to hold a pencil properly. Seriously, it makes me cry.

At 5, they could be doing project stuff which helps them to take turns and share and listen. Not writing and spelling. Maybe we wouldn't have such problems with lack of empathy in teenagers, if they had a bit more time to develop social skills and enjoy their childhood.

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100% agree OP. Which is why I like home education

Part of me agrees with you as we pulled our deeply unhappy 5 year old out of a state school and put him in a Steiner kindergarten, where he was very happy. I've since moved on from Steiner having discovered some very questionable things about it, but I did learn that certain small children really thrive when they're allowed a lot of physical freedom and 'crafty' rather than academic activities.

no way for my dd

she started when she was 5
she was very ready for it and loves it to bits and is thriving

Yes, there is clear evidence to suggest that children who don't start school til 7 are emotionally healthier.

Yes definitely.

Oh yes, me me me!!

FossilSister, I have similar concerns about education although my dd is just 2. In particular I think that the homework/sats stuff is crap for primary school children.

they should goto school

what i believe they should do at 5 years old at school is different

there is an inbetweeen for me.

I think 5 is a good age to start reception
4 is too young for some ,so I think all should start when 5.
Being a summer baby is tough I think.
My ds started at 5 (September baby) and he was gagging for it.

I think, like Custardo, that going to school is fine, but agree it's what they do that is important. Both DSs (young 4s when they started) had a ball in Reception - a little bit of work now and then, not too much pressure to write, loads and loads of art and craft and playtime and storytime.

Y1 was tough for both of them emotionally; I think in particular expectations of writing are too high, and too much recording is expected too early. Loads of kids are happy to learn by talking and doing, and not yet ready to sit down and write.

Agree that the survey you have been asked to fill in is completely ridiculous and not what is important at that age at all!

I was very lucky to get my DD into a school where the emphasis is on learning through play. Apparently they do a small amount of phonics (for example) then learning through play, then some maths, then more play - none of this sitting at a table learning things parrot fashion. DD has just turned 4 and is starting in September so we'll see how it goes.

I went to 6 schools before choosing one and nearly all the headteachers seemed to think that 'formal' education i.e. sitting at desks all day should not begin until they are 7. There seemed to be a bit of melancholy about the way in which our children are pushed and tested so early and I agree.

I think it extends to older children too - I was set 2-3 hours homework per night at 15yrs. I didn't get home until 5pm so when are you supposed to have time develop as a person . I would not want to be a kid today

Completly agree - DS started school in September and is a summer baby and he was too young. We have recently withdrawn him from school and it was the best thing we have done

Now he plays and has fun and he most certainly does not get a sticker for being quiet as happened at his school

It seems to be govenment policy to remove all elements of a childhood from children.

Well, I was brought up in the Swedish system, where in those days you didn't start until 7. These days, the common starting age is 6, but parents can choose to keep you at day nursery/playschool until you are 7; there is no stigma.

I agree that many children do need to get out of the home and socialise between the ages of 4 and 7, but ideally I would like to see something like the Scandinavian day nursery system, with more emphasis on practical skills: nature walks, helping to prepare meals, crafts, playing outside in all weathers. There is a day nursery in Gothenburg which has no indoors: all they've got is a tool shed, the kids are out all day.

And I'd like something which is not compulsory for the early years- Swedish parents can keep their 5yos home from day nursery if it's a sunny day and they want to take them fishing.

What strikes me is how long English children take, between the ages of 4 and 8, to learn things that we sailed through after a few months in our first term- because we were ready for it. I think it's really sad to hear 4yo boys muttering that 'I'm not clever' because they can't learn to hold a pen or don't understand the alphabet- and to know that they might have another 3 years of struggling before it all clicks into place.

I am also struck how low many children here are on practical skills and on out-of-door experiences. As a teacher friend of mine in an inner London school put it: 'There's no point in teaching these kids to write: they've got nothing to write about'.

When dc's make anything at school, it's some sort of crappy model that you can't use for anything and which very soon ends up in the bin. When my Swedish nephews do craft, they seem to do more real things: candleholders that you can actually use. So I gather that teacher training is better on the craft side there, and that more resources are spent on this (and probably fewer on ICT).

So yes, I'm not saying 'abolish school'. I'm not a home educating person either. My children have always enjoyed the bustle of the school day. But I do think we miss things that should be taught in the early school days, and we spend too much on things that could be taught more efficiently at a later stage.

I live in Belgium and the children here don't start formal education until the age of 6. I agree with that. The standard of education on the whole is very high - that's one of the reasons we moved to Belgium.

I see threads on mumsnet from mums worrying about their four and five year olds who are having difficulty learning to read and write, and I find that so sad. Children are this age shouldn't be pressurised and forced into learning something that they are clearly not ready for (but I do appreciate many kids are ready to learn to read and write at this age).

cory - it's also my experience that children here learn to read within one term of starting school, precisely because at the age of six, most of them are ready to learn to read and write. And at the age of four/five, many of them aren't (after all, you wouldn't push a child to potty train before they are ready would you? So why push a child into formal education before they are ready?)

My four year old clearly isn't ready for formal education, and I consider other things to be far more important at this age - social play, learning to swim/ride a bike for example.

"after all, you wouldn't push a child to potty train before they are ready would you?"

• well reading plenty of threads on MN and other sites and talking to people in RL too, yes, i'm afraid we do.

No reason why a child should not be starting school at 4 or 5 if they are really ready and they should not have to start until 6 or 7 or 16 if they are not ready/do not want to.

I feel that the prob with school system is that there is no flexibility, no choice.

DS is due to start school in sept. After much umming and aahing, we have decided he will start, but part time. He will prob do 3 days a week. He does 2 days at a lovely 'chilled' nursery now and it's just right for him. We only decided he will start because we found a school that listened to us and are happy for him to go part time.

TBH, I am still not convinced. I find it all a bit odd - the starting according to which year you were born (not even your age), all go full time (unless you are very lucky), all wear the same (stops bullying ?? - very lazy), all learn the same subjects and the same topics within those subjects...etc.

Nowt wrong with what's done in schools when it suits the child best, but when anything a bit different is seen as 'weird' and potentially disadvantaging the child academically (AT PRIMARY AGE FFS !!) then we are on dangerous ground IMO.

Anyone 'different' seen as a target for bullying !! (has been suggested by many that my DS will be a target for bullies if he only goes P/T). Don't want him to go F/T and become a part of a crowd who think this way thanks .

However, DS has a friend born in the same week who can't wait to go to school and i'm sure would be happy to go straight into Y1 doing lots of formal work. So let's have some common sense and choice !!

theodoresmummy - well they shouldn't do (force potty training that is!)

you're right, flexibility is important, and I'm sure that the belgian system has it's disadvantages just like every school system has it's disadvantages.

My dd is a summer baby and she started school in September when she was 4 and 1 month.

I was very worried, but apart from the long day she loved Reception, it was a small class of 12 kids, all the ones she was at Preschool with. The teacher was fantastic and she had a lot of fun. I think we are lucky with the school that she is in and homework was minimal.

To be honest, Year 2 is the problem, its not so play based and she is struggling. Also Year 2 is a combined class with Year 3.

So I dont have a problem with them starting school at 4, its just what they do in the early years, and i dont just mean Reception.

The good thing about the Swedish nurseries is that they are not stopping anyone from learning to read; you can do that too. But they do find it very important to develop practical skills: after all, even the most academic person is sooner or later going to have to fix themselves lunch. And everyone, regardless of interests, needs fresh air, particularly a growing child.

My dd is just 7 and would have been bored rigid if she wasn't at school. There is so much more to school than learning to read and write imo.

Cory, I've read different views about starting school at 7 ( Emkana who went to school in Germany for one).

I also find your friend's view of teaching in an inner London school - well I don't know what the word is tbh - but it's certainly a sweeping statement and unfair.

I agree, Cory, about the readiness thing. My boys, luckily for them given their birth month, were ready to learn to read (not to write, however), but so many 4 year olds are not. By 6 to 6.5 it seems to click for the vast majority of them, so why make them spend two years feeling discouraged and demotivated? Even now, in Y2, DS2 wants to do science experiments and dress up as historical characters, rather than write instructions on how to make a jam sandwich.

Yes another Home educator who agrees with you!

In europe they don`t go till 6years old
Nor do they go on a Wednesday

Homework for primary is wrong don`t mind doing the reading at home or the spellings but when ds came home with a SATS booklet plus maths sheet plus reading and spellings at the age of 7 that is EXTRACTING THE URINE

DD is 5 she gets reading 3times aweek plus the flash cards of words which we do but then the teacher says could I do the alphabet at home to to back up what happens at school.

May as well teach her at home

Actually although formal school may not start until 6 or 7 increasingly in Europe younger children attend preschool or kindergartens which can still be quite regimented and compulsory. We lived in a country where they didn't go until 6 and left partly because dd would have been bored rigid as she would n't have started until almost 7 whereas she went here at just 4. The alternative was £££. Did enjoy having a short day on Wednesdays though, but then the kids often started at 8 so still put the hours in.