Does anyone else think children shouldn't start school till they're 7?

[FossilSister]

DD is 5 and currently in Year 1. I found myself being asked to fill in a school survey:

"Is homework set and marked regularly?" "Are lessons well-planned and effective?" etc.

Apart from the fact that I can't even know this stuff, what does it really matter? Shouldn't they be asking "Does your child like school?" "Is your child happy?"

Shouldn't we be a bit bothered about work life balance for our 5 year olds? What can they do at home between the tea bath bed rush that they couldn't in 6 hours of school.

I love my kids school. It's great and she is happy, I just wish she was doing nature walks and playing, not sitting at a table all day when she isn't old enough to hold a pencil properly. Seriously, it makes me cry.

At 5, they could be doing project stuff which helps them to take turns and share and listen. Not writing and spelling. Maybe we wouldn't have such problems with lack of empathy in teenagers, if they had a bit more time to develop social skills and enjoy their childhood.

We have friends in Germany whose DS was the same age as DD. He didn't start until 7 but found it all a horrible shock as they had gone from playing all day to very formal setting, whereas over here it is a much more gradual basis. Reception is mostly play and not about formal schooling. My DD was chomping at the bit to start at 4.3 but couldn't start until she was 5 in September.

christy, - must remember you too!

In NZ they don't have to start school until 6 years old but majority start at 5.

My MIL who is a primary school teacher there says that in her opinion the UK system is better than NZ (which is often held up as an example to us all)

Singers girl and Cory - thanks so much.

I'm not particularly a home educator - I couldn't stand DD wanting to wear white knee socks at age 15 - and I don't necessarily think kids should stay at home (particularly not mine). I just think formal education is wrong for this age. Nothing wrong with reading - great, but the emphasis on writing spelling and sitting still is crap. Wouldn't it be great if they could cook and draw and stick and paint, instead of learning that you work and then you die.

It makes me sad too. My dd is just 5 and is still so tiny (she is not a pfb either lol)
it breaks my heart some mornings when she is still half asleep and trying to put her uniform on .
I do think 7 might be a bit too old as my older ds and dd were very ready to start school .

I do wish I could keep her out until I knew she was ready to start .

I agree OP.

Cory, thanks for sharing your experience of Sweden - very interesting (and fuel for my soapbox rantings!).

DD is a summer baby - she is 'due' for school in September at 4 years 2 months. We are not sending her though - no way. She is bright, recognises lots of letters, counts etc...but to me that doesn't make her ready for school. I'm sure she would like it well enough if she went, but children don't always know whats best for themselves, and as her mother, I know that what she needs at age 4 is not to be pushed to read and write and spell and count.

We are moving to Australia at the end of the year. The system is better there, and moving toward later start age.

There, the earliest kids can start is 4 years 6 months, but even then you can choose to send them a year later if you like - so at 5 years 6 months.

My DS could start reception at 4 years 10 months, or start reception at 5 years 10 months -it is entirely up to us.

We may home ed though. In my ideal world, I would find a play based 'school' that will take them part time until 7 or 8 years...if only.

Did I see my name mentioned?

Yes in Germany it's mainly free play until they are 6, even though things are moving towards a school starting age of 5 now. Then once school starts it's straight into "sit down, get your stuff out, we'll do a dictation" kind of thing. A big shock to the system. I think here in the UK a lot depends on the school, but the school where the dd's are is very good, reception is very much about play, but they also start to learn to read and write without finding it a struggle. Then gradually they move onto more "serious" work as they go into Year 1 and then Year 2.

I hear a lot on here about how awful the Sats are, but in Germany school children are tested constantly, even in primary school. Yes it is teacher assessed but the pressure is enormous and the children get grades and they know exactly where they are in relation to their classmates. Here my dd1 is in Yr 2 and she doesn't even know that grades exist really, and the Sats are currently taking place and are so low key that they don't bother her at all.

DS1 was 4 and 1 week when he started reception, then obv 5 and 1 week when he started year 1. NO WAY was he ready for school. In less than 18 months he'd gone from being a happy, confident boy to one who needed to be constantly told how clever he was. He had been labelled by his teacher as disruptive, talked too much and a bit on the lazy side when it came to writing. He was far to young to be in the system (he had been in full time nursery from the age of 2 so was used to being away from home).

Then we moved to Sweden.

So he went back to playing, building relationships, learning about the social aspect, learning how to make things with proper materials (I know this has been mentioned on here earlier).

He is now back to the wonderful, inquisitive, eager to learn child he was before he was damaged by the british school system.

This is only my opinion, but having seen it first hand I get quite emotional about it. I know there are many, many children who are ready to go to school at this age, but I think there should be some system in place to help the ones who aren't.

MrsMills - I agree that your DS was far too young to be in the system in the UK.

What people tend to forget is that children do not have to be at school - if that has been chosen as the route to education until the term after their 5th birthday. (They also do not have to be in school to receive this education either, they have to legally be educated not schooled!)

For summer born boys many are entering a school system at 4.1, 4.2 4.3 years old. I think we have become so used to hearing the age but it is 4 YEARS OLD. Goodness me they are still little and I for one have opted to reclaim my sons childhood back - we withdrew him from his school recently and the transformation has been amazing. My chatty, inquisitive, intelligent boy has returned and I am delighted. He has colour in his cheeks, is tired at the end of the day from the all the fresh air and activity and not from being couped up in a classroom. He and DC2 are meeting a variety of people in our daily comings and goings. The greengrocer, the baker etc etc as well as other children his own age.

I know my son is a bright little boy however I was not prepared to watch as he was forced encouraged to read and write when he is simply not interested or ready and then for him to feel that he is failing when he doesn't get it. It will come at a time when he is ready and not bloody well before then.

I think people need to know that they can even with this dreadful current government excercise individual choice. As parents we know our children and I personally will not be told again by Whitehall that they know my son best and he should be at school at 4.3 years of age. Do not be panicked by people who say they will be behind if they miss out on the reception year. Whilst I am sure there are some fantastic teachers out there somewhere there are also a great many I would question the abilities of and whose prime motivating concern seems to be that they mould 20 individuals into 1 homogenous being, tick a box and send a report to some far off body. We do not live in an inner city area with sink schools as far as the eye can see but an affluent area with very few social problems.

So to anybody reading this who is worrying about sending young summer born children, especially boys to school in September I would caution you to have another think about it.

....croissant anyone?

Fossil - don't you think they do all of those things at school? Mine are in yr2 and reception and they certainly don't sit at a desk all day. Their day is very varied but it does included reading, writing, spelling, maths etc - and I'm glad about it! Many children are more than ready at 5 to start learning these things and as long as the school/teachers allows each child to learn at their own pace, I don't see what the problem is.

I completely agree with OP 5 is way to young to be institionalised, they should be able to grow and blossom i htier own way first, they are going to be spending way to long trying to conform to societies expectations later on in life. What happened to being children rather than statistics.

www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2616479&path=/Opinion/&messagePage=9 this discussion is also on the TES forum

I found the balance of play and work shifted dramatically in Y1. There was one ridiculous time in Term 2, Y1 when DS2, who was just 5.5, was being kept in at break to finish work! What he needed to do was go and run around outside. He couldn't understand why he had to spend 15 laborious (for him) minutes filling in a maths sheet when he could have told someone the answers in 1 minute - and then gone on to play.

Because of the ludicrously inflexible start dates here, DS2 is potentially only 4 hours older than some of the children in the year below him. If he was now in Y1 rather than Y2, his presentation would be above average. As he is able, he is working alongside children who are mostly 8-12 months older than him. Of course his writing isn't as neat as theirs! But it is flagged as an 'issue'. He's 6.5!

His end of Y1 report said that, after a bumpy patch, he had begun to enjoy learning again. He had always enjoyed learning. He just hadn't always enjoyed school.

Totally agree that yr 1 is too much. My dd enjoyed reception, though it was tiring (and she is a July baby). Yr 1 leaves her totally exhausted and the stuff they do seems way too complex for 5 year olds - they do things I know for a fact I never come across until secondary school. However this term seems better, I was delighted when she came home last week and told me they'd spent the afternoon making plasticene animals. Outside. Thats more like it!

We've experienced both. Dd started school at 4 in the UK and when she was half way through y2 we moved to Germany. Ds had just started reception (he spent a total of 6 weeks there) in UK and went back to kindergarten in Germany for another 18 months. He is due to start school this September when he will be 6.

I have my reservations about both systems. I think 4 is too early for many children to get to grips with writing and I don't think they would suffer by having to wait another 2 years to learn this when they would learn much more quickly and be more motivated. I also think it is utterly pointless to set homework at this age except for encouraging parents to read to their children. I suspect many teachers feel the same but are put under pressure by parents to set homework.

On the other hand, I like the more gradual introduction to formal education in the UK. Here it really is a big shock to the system, but that is partly to do with the fact that school finishes at lunch time every day so there's a lot to pack in.

What's wrong in both countries is that there are too many targets to be met and not enough consideration for those that are late developers.

I'm not by any means anti-teacher. In fact, I must come clean and say I am one, altho it's only Drama (so not proper teaching ) and in a secondary school. I know as much about primary as anyone. I was just shocked by the jump from Reception to Year 1, and by the homework. I would imagine teachers are just as trapped by the system as parents. I'm sure they feel the same. In fact, it's the other parents I've heard complaining about how easy the homework is and telling each other where you can get triangular pencil grips etc. And I love the fact that they manage to do so much fun stuff at my child's school. I have noticed a few headlines recently about exam pressure and stress in kids. Maybe the tide is about to turn.

bringmesunshine - were you thinking of taking him out just a few weeks ago? Was that you? Glad you did it!

As I understand it though (and I may be wrong - slipperly grasp of British schooling system that I have) - if you 'hold you child back' for a year, they then have to miss reception class and go straight to year 1. So they are still the youngest in the class, and now they have 'missed' a year of school transition as well.

In Australia (as I described below about holing kids back a year), if you keep them back a year, thy still start in reception, as the oldest in the class. I LOVE that parents have that choice.

Astrophe - yes that was me! we are having a ball at the moment enjoying doing age appropriate things, lots of digging, planting, running and climbing. Oh and baking the odd chocolate cake or two

The best decision we made just regret ever starting him at school. He was and is still too young.

Thank you for your support

fantastic :O I'm so pleased for you. When wil he start then? Will he go straight to yr 1? Did you face opposition about your decision?

It's not the starting age, it's what they do! Formal schooling should begin at around age 7, and there's so much you can teach before that - like art, craft, music, drama, practical skills, spots and physical activity, etc etc
And I can't help but think that that is part of the problem with kids from disadvantaged families who are said to be 'let down' by the system - I'm sure a lot of them go straight from 'not being ready' to lacking interest and motivation and underperforming later on.
My ds's behaviour and attitude to school really did change after he turned 7 - he is much happier and settled now, before that it was a complete pain and it used to break my heart just looking at him struggle!

Since I have been working in a school in Year 2
I can honestly say I am amazed and a little shocked at the level of the curriculum and what they are expected to cover. They are still little!

We have just opened a role play corner in the classroom and to see them dressing up as Scientists rather than doing division with remainders is just lovely.

Hey, Astrophe, are you coming back to Sydney? (puts kettle on).

My DD will start kindy (reception) next February just before her 6th birthday. I could have sent her this year but don't have to, so she does 2 days at pre-school instead. I had bad experiences with early starters in the UK so am really pleased with this system, but a lot of English friends can't understand why I don't want her at school.

I remember having a conversation with an acquantaince the other day about an educational philosophy which states that children should only start with reading and writing when they are 7. If I'm not mistaken, the key theorist's name starts with a W -- anyone know what I'm talking about? I'm curious to read more but having no luck with google..

mezzer, you may be thinking of the Steiner-Waldorf system... many, many threads and differing views .

I personally think I my own children needed to go to school when they did - but think there should be some parental discretion - eg in Ireland if a parent feels that a summer baby is not ready to start at 4 they can wait until the following year to start... and not be forced to skip a year in the process

I think children should start school at 5 years old and by that I mean 5 not 4. So for some children they will be nearer 6 years old.

I think the first 2 years should be a lot like out reception is now with the emphasis on play but gradually introducing more formal learning each year. Then by 7/8 years old it could be much more formal based but having had a gentle 2 year introduction.

I son't think formal reading/writing lesseons should start until the second year of school, though of course any child who seems to be learning or wants to learn to do this should be encouraged.

I also thing that there should be much more leeway for absence in the first 2-3 years of school. I think if a child is feeling very tired after a long week that there should be no problem keeping them off for the odd day occasionally. Of course this does mean that we have to trust parents to do what is best for their children.