How do I get the best for my daughter without being a pain to the teachers?

[Meltedcheese2]

Wondering if anyone can give me any advice please.

My year 4 daughter is well behaved, quiet and relatively bright etc - hitting all the expected standards but not GD apart from reading. She is a lovely child, eager to please and thrives off praise

She is a state school which has a massively mixed intake including loads of children with extra needs, lots of deprivation. I absolutely feel for the staff in the current scenario as I can see all they are trying to do is keep their heads above water.

I have realised (and now DD is older she is articulating more) that in a class of 30 she is almost invisible and lost. I understand why - all energy goes on keeping children safe and supporting those with special needs.

We do all her homework every week and all extra tasks set and it is never marked and she never gets any feedback. I despair of that as basically the message she receives is that it doesn't matter whether you work hard or not.

I ABSOLUTELY get it. I work in social care and we are in same position. I don't want to be that parent who is pushy and makes it worse. We get 2 parents evenings a year and literally no other feedback; but is there any way I can try and get more support for her without being a pain to the school or the staff, who are under enough pressure?

When we realised last year she was struggling with maths we got a maths tutor for an hour a week and that has helped but I feel like she is getting so little support at school that she won't progress at all. Do I just have to put all my time into helping her (I also work full time) and accept that this is now state education? Please be kind I genuinely do not want to be a pain, I feel for the school, but I do want the best for her

Can you afford private school OP?

Her homework doesn't need to be visibly 'marked' for her teacher to read it and judge how much she's understanding and use this information as the staring point for planning the next lesson.

Different year group, but also have a well behaved, bright child in a challenging class. Homework isn't marked but 'celebrated' so we just don't bother and try and do our own thing with workbooks at home. Maths homework is only TT Bloody Rockstars - DD's timestables are fine (full marks in Y4 check) so do our own thing for maths from workbooks.

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of classwork is peer reviewed and DD's spelling and punctuation is dreadful as, as far as I can tell, she is rarely picked up on it on an individual basis. I am aware of the current teaching trend of spotting common mistakes and reviewing them to the whole class, but I have to say this does not work for DD at all.

I think I'd do as many enrichment activities as possible. Baking - this recipe is for 12 cupcakes. What if we only make 6 etc, plus weighing and measuring. Watch horrible history type programmes and visit local museums etc that build upon her understanding of particular periods. Make sure you have a good range of non fiction books at home as well as fiction and discuss topics. Visit a library regularly if you can.
Play board games and card games of various sorts. Learn life skills, how to make a cup of tea, hang out washing.
Do arts and crafts at home and in museums etc ( Daryl Wakelam on twitter is excellent for ideas). Make sure she is involved in a club that does a good range of activities ( Brownies, Cubs, dance and drama etc). Encourage her to write stories and diaries. Have items for den building. I know this is all really hard when you are working full time and you can't do everything, but try and do a selection of these when you can.

@lessglittermoremud

Homework is not marked and there aren’t consequences for not practicing spellings etc there is also a lot of poor/disruptive behaviour that the teacher also said they were trying to get a handle on as it was effecting the students trying to learn.

There are consequences for not practising spelling, as inaccuracies will be affecting attainment and ability to communicate.

Hey I was exactly in the same situation. Mine in year 6 now. When they are doing 'well' with no concerns they largely get forgotten about. However, what's important is, and what I do, always ask 'have you done your homework?' 'Let me see your homework' 'talk me through it' etc... They won't get that individual treatment at school so emphasising it at home is a powerful message.

Have you thought about Kumon maths and English?

I’m wondering how I would have learnt to spell and count if my homework had been celebrated rather than marked.

I would consider moving her OP, unless she’s really happy and keen to stay. My worry would be that right now she’s a sweet compliant little 8 year old girl, well behaved and eager to please. If she learns at this stage that teachers don’t mark homework and aren’t really invested in her education (albeit understandable if they have a class of challenging pupils and she’s an easy one), then when she’s a stroppy teenager she may disengage with education herself. It’s really important at this early stage of education that kids realise how important it is. And it’s a lot of extra endeavour for you, if you’re going to take on the role that the school should be undertaking.

My DCs are much older now but dc2 was that child too.
I found he was ignored (good enough that the teacher wasn’t bothered, quiet so didn’t attract attention) both in primary and in secondary.
And yes it has been an issue mainly because he ended up coasting and not doing anywhere as well as he could.

In primary, I did what other posters suggested and did some ‘enrichment’ At home. 10~15 mins a day no more.
This sort of worked in primary. Up to a point. Better at early years than in the later years.

I think if you dint seem to be getting anywhere, I’d look at changing school. And I’d investigate now what’s the situation for the secondaries around you.
dc2 secondary was crap and the school even recognised they had let him down (following an OFSTED report raising the very concerns I had about the school). He only started to do better after moving to a new school.

Your daughter should not feel invisible. I get that classes are difficult with a range of children, needs and abilities, but she should get some attention at some point!
You can obviously help at home, get tutors etc but if she is struggling again with anything, I would at least point it out to the school.
Maybe that's why I'm not a teacher anymore - I would be killing myself trying to make sure every single child was noticed.......

The depressing thing about this is that all children should be able to demonstrate progress against where they started. In reality, the bright ones are left to coast and everyone is happy if they achieve the expected standards, even if they are more than capable of hitting greater depth and beyond. The weakest learners will demonstrate more progress against their starting points due to the interventions they get. Whilst this is better for society as a whole (ie more people hitting an average standard, no one absolutely floundering) it does a massive disservice to bright and engaged children, who are often bored, ignored and left to get on with things.

Thanks for that, I wrote in a hurry.
Hope it made you feel superior!

You could have been describing my DD. Bright, eager, well-behaved, but "under the teacher's radar", i.e. invisible. This was in a nice enough neighbourhood in London, in a supposedly decent primary school. DD became so demoralised that at one point I wanted to home school. But in the end I just prioritised her education. I spent time with her on things I could help her with, and then got a tutor for Maths for a bit.

Also, the other thing that saved DD was music. She studied quite seriously from when she was young, and it gave her so much: the ability to concentrate, the ability to break down a difficult task, the ability to work with others in an orchestra and ensemble group, and a love of music and a whole group of friends outside of school. Just a thought.

This is the same for both my boys. The high level of need, especially in my youngest's class means that he is largely ignored. It's very sad for him and what's worse is that he's seeing that bad behaviour is rewarded with attention. Currently he's just asking me about why the naughty kids get stuff. I'm hoping he doesn't start misbehaving for attention.

My eldest only read with an adult in school twice in year 2. Fortunately we have the time to do reading and worksheets with them every night and take them to museums etc. If I could afford it I would send them private. It's heartbreaking to think what they could achieve with a decent education instead of being ignored in a state school.

My 4dc all did kumon and it helped all of them in different ways. My youngest now doing IB Maths HL had no confidence in maths before she started but now loves it. My eldest, now a Cambridge educated doctor, completed both the English and Maths programme and it helped improve her accuracy and speed. Would definitely recommend.

It didn't make me feel superior to anyone, I just think a post talking about the importance of spelling should spell accurately. I think it's a bit rich that parents can question what teachers are providing for their children, imply they could do better and it seems to be up them to educate their own children, but don't know the basics.

Both errors are typically (when made by children, at least in my experience) because they don't actually know the difference, not because someone is rushing when typing. Practice is a noun. Practise is a verb. There's no such thing as practicing in British English. It's never the right option, so you didn't just inadvertently select the wrong one this time.

I think my point was that children taking the time to practice their spellings were not treated any differently to the children who did not bother, there is no reward regardless so the children become disheartened.
I’m so glad there are people who take the time to quote others to correct their errors, I’ll have a word with my phone about autofilling words and make sure I take the time to proof read before posting.
edited to add
nowhere on my post did I say I could do better, if you read my post in full, I actually pointed out the problem for teachers with such mixed abilities and no support staff….

And my point is that if you do practise your spellings, the reward is inherent; you don't become an adult who makes basic mistakes 'in a hurry' and then again (after the exact error was corrected!), in subsequent writing!

You must be such fun at parties!
I’ll change my phone settings asap so as not to offend you further, seems it’s set to American Eng.
I’ll make sure that the children when disheartened, understand the future rewards of perfect spelling and grammar, I’m sure they’ll understand…..
The reason why one of mine is having tutoring currently to strive for his dream, and the other has had it previously due to struggling is because funnily enough, I’m fully aware of my limitations (without really needing someone to keep harping on about it) so pay for the qualifications and experience of others.
Both the tutors are qualified teachers who have left the profession because of the state of schools, so the OP’s concerns are valid which my original post was why I posted originally.

i am probably out of touch bit can you not just ask the teacher for a few pointers?

i am sure the teacher does give some feedback but an 8 year old can not alway be the most accurate.

This isn't a party. It's a thread about children's learning. I take that seriously and maintain that intrinsic motivation is important. There's precisely nothing wrong with telling your children the reward for their effort comes in knowledge and skills they gain for life. They shouldn't complete a task for a pat on the head, or a tick on a page,but to achieve something and inform their teachers about what's needed next.

It's not harping on about anything to respond when you continue to tell me you'll do something about it. You've already posted saying you'll proofread and the post itself clearly hadn't been. Stop attempting to defend yourself with more badly written rubbish... OP’s concerns are valid which my original post was why I posted originally???

Does she read for pleasure? That will help with spelling and vocab and comprehension and won’t feel like more homework. Find a book series she enjoys and is motivated to read the next book. Even through secondary teachers would comment dc must read alot for fun as it showed in their work. And also it doesn’t take much input from you other than regular trips to bookshops.

Whilst I may have missed a few spellings and a word in my final sentence, you obviously missed the life lessons in humility and kindness.
I’ll not engage further with you as I don’t wish to derail the OP’s thread.

I find this interesting.

Scotland here. Very rural. Our catchment would have had two in class. I chose out catchment which had six. The closest between two had 30.

My daughters are "ignored" so to speak in the sense that they are not top of class nor bottom. Homework isn't marked. Awards are never given. Punishment is never given.

Composite class. Positive parents evenings.

Sad children. Back to that one system doesn't fit all.

I do what I can at home. Books, fun, tests. Lots of praise. But it's hard to enthuse them when they try so hard to get noticed but sit just below the top.