Typical proportion of children working at 'greater depth' in a class

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I wondered if any teachers could tell me what proportion of children in a class you would typically expect to be working 'at greater depth' and what proportion at 'age related expectations'? I am just trying to get a feel for where my daughter is in relation to her peers when she is mostly at 'age related expectations' (she gets the occasional 'greater depth' in something)?

This, honestly for a child who has been prepared for the 11+ yr 6 SATs are a walk in the park. They will get GD across the board. But that might be the same 10% who would anyway. Assumng a normal distribution with a cut off of 110 youwould wxpect about 15% of children to reach this standard.

My dd had GD in her subjective reports throughout primary, in SATS (this summer) she got GD in reading and SPAG and expected in maths and writing. She’s at secondary school now which is set for maths but not English at the moment, but she’s in top set for maths (240 pupils split in half so she got into the top 30 of 120 with a score of 106 I think it was in maths) and has a reading age of 15. I don’t think the teaching was great for maths in her primary to be honest, she thinks they have ‘recapped’ stuff this term that she hasn’t done before.

This is a non grammar area where parents don’t tend to get tuition (several of her primary friends did have tuition but to get them into ‘expected’ rather than GD - probably because the school teaching was poor). We did no tutoring or parent led homework at all - I think children need to be self-driven.

It has very little to do with an august baby. Please please please remember that. I speak as a teacher and a mum of an august baby. Plus people can be successful at life even if they are apparently "working towards"

I have taught classes where august babies are in the GDS section and where august babies are in the working towards section. I've had September babies in both as well. I know it's hard to think of your little one being a whole year younger than some but once they hit yr 3, it's not as obvious. Some children are not for academic learning, or are good at it just not the way schools teach it. Is the school supporting your child and providing opportunities for them to access learning.

OP there is a huge descripency between teacher assessments. As a teacher in a junior school (starting at yr 3) we struggle to agree with the data the infant school send up. It happens every year. As others have said, do you know how to help them with next steps to improve their learning?

I've been a teacher for 14 years and I just want to say that I hate, hate, HATE the term 'greater depth children'. As opposed to those shallow ones. Awful.

It doesn't matter where her peers are, it matters where she is, and how happy she is.

Thank you, I’m looking into tutoring but funds are low. We have signed up to Kumon (maths) because it’s affordable and I have heard good things about it. We don’t have the 11+ in my area, but I know a lot of kids in our state primary do the entrance exams for independent schools. We’re not planning for our child to do these.

It’s better than talented and gifted though. Always cringed at that categorisation

I am not sure if individual experiences tell you much.

Here are tge national stats
https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/key-stage-2-attainment

But also, schools might be using slightly different measures for those levels in different year groups anyway. Otherwise everyone at the start of ks2 woukd be working towards as they wouldn't have covered it yet.

It depends on the cohort really, but on average in a class of 30, up to 7 (realistically more like 5) at GD, up to 5 (ish) below and the rest at expected.

SATS give a concrete score , but they're not necessarily a true reflection either due to various factors.

That was also awful! But at least the 'talented' was a clumsy attempt at recognising a greater breadth of achievements than just the academic ones.
'Higher attaining' (NOT high ability) is the least worst. They're attaining a higher level in the narrow range of things we are assessing at that moment in time.

@Wahoobafoo I just asked the school for the raw scores - that was for Infants. They didn't have a policy to publish but said they'd provide them if requested. Their Junior school put the raw scores as an addendum to their Y6 report.

At my son’s school (private) at secondary level, it was reported that those who are deemed high achievers were not being stretched enough due to instructive teaching - so it does really really depend on the school, the style of teaching and of course how the child responds to all of that. I know that isn’t primary but it’s just one example.

But Gifted and Talented was the correct names. Some children are exceptionally talented at art, sport, dance or music. If you have a very gifted child they can be categorised as Mildly, Moderately or highly gifted these children are more than just your 'bright sparks' getting GD, they need additional challenge and support in place. DD is Highly Gifted and her brain works in a completely different way to her peers and she works at a completely different level.

I disagree!! Bring an August baby, and almost a year younger than some classmates, has a huge and lasting impact.

August born children do significantly worse in GCSEs and A-levels than September born. They are more likely to be considered to have SEN needs, and it is likely that part of them is thar they are just not ready to sit down and learn in the same way a September born is- having had a whole extra year to develop.

So saying it is not noteworthy by Year 3 is bullshit if birth month is still having an impact at A-level.

Thank you

Thank you - that does not apply in my area

Your second paragraph is so true. The standards for meeting at Year 2 are challenging - two that would prevent many children I've encountered at that age attaining it are 'spell many common exception words' and 'add and subtract any two 2-digit numbers using an efficient strategy' - where an 'efficient strategy' basically excludes counting in ones or using fingers.

I went to moderation training, and the trainer said she had had to down-grade a whole class to 'working-towards expectations', as the teacher had made a fundamental error when assessing her class 😬 At moderations with other teachers, work has been presented to me as being 'GD', which it patently wasn't as there were far too many missed capitals, spellings and full stops etc. It was good writing, but just happened to be the best of that class, and not truly GD.

May I ask if you're in a deprived area? Because those GCSE results really surprise me - at DD's comprehensive, over half of pupils get 7-9 for GCSE maths. The same is true of two others we looked at for her. I admit we avoided a school where the results look more similar to what you describe, but I'd have hoped they were the exception.

Here are the National percentages for children reaching the Expected (ARE) level in 2024. I don’t have the National percentages for higher standard (GD) saved on my phone, but here are the GD percentages for Kensington + Chelsea - which is one of the highest achieving LEAs.

@recordersaregreat one of the most deprived areas in the country, predominantly white coastal area. Massive level of parental learning difficulties, illiteracy, mental health issues etc.

Also an area with a large hospital and some offshore engineering type employers so generally higher attaining students were children of professional parents working in those industries.

DD is exceptionally gifted (assessed as, not being braggy) her Primary school was great at challenging her and her Secondary school has been fantastic at supporting her autism and she's on track for all 9s, so it's not really a school issue but you can't out-school homelife and parental influence.

I know plenty of parents who "DIYed" it. The books are availible to buy, I would also suggest times tables stars ( I think that's what it's called). 20-30 minutes 121 every school night ( or in the morning if it suits your family better) will pay dividends. Sets them up with good habits for yr 7 too.

he is 5 in year 1, one of the youngest in his class

Why are posters on this thread saying kids have tutoring for year 6 SATs? Why would they need this? I feel very poorly informed."

It’s not just for SATs but for 11+ tests. My dc sat the Wandsworth test although that just for non verbal & verbal reasoning. Friends sat Wandsworth, Sutton & private schools.

My DD was GD all through primary but was in a very challenging class so not hard to be at the top of her game. In secondary, she is probably jist above average