DD on track rather than greater depth

[Thedownstream]

Just had Parents Evening for DD who is in Year 5. Early on in her school life she was greater depth in Reading, Maths and Science but since the middle of year 2 she has dropped back and now is always meeting age related expectations for the core subjects and never anything more. She gets greater depth consistently in PE, Computing, PHSE and sometimes Geography, but they’re not the core subjects.

EY and Year 1 for her were the years she missed out on schooling due to Covid, and I really tried hard with the homeschooling despite her reluctance. Two younger siblings later and I admit I’ve taken the eye of the ball and DH never had his eye on it, and we’ve not done the readings or spellings with her we should have done, and whilst she’s done her homework every week it’s been a case of let her hand in whatever even if it’s taken her 5 minutes. I feel like we’ve failed her and she should be achieving more. She’s bright (I think) but very slapdash and very competitive. Every teacher has fed back that she needs to take more care with her work and not just rush to finish first. Same feedback tonight.

DH and I both work and DD plays sport 4 nights per week, plus she has two younger siblings that need attention. We barely have enough time to feed them with rushing around let alone anything else!

So what would you focus on at home to help her reach her potential? We’ve started enforcing reading for 20 minutes each morning and I was thinking of getting her to practice spellings then too. But is there anything else we can do with such limited time?

I want her to do as well in her SATS next year as possible. Our local secondary isn’t great behaviour wise if you’re not in top sets. I feel we owe it to her to help her get the best results she can to set her up well for secondary. I don’t think a tutor for SATS is the answer. I don’t want her to panic under any pressure, but perhaps a tutor for English not linked to SATS (English is definitely weaker than Maths)?

No, no, no!
Breakfast at the breakfast table, not school work.
Relaxing in the holidays, not being forced to write stories that have to be a certain length (by all means let her write creatively but only if she wants to).
This is a child, a person, not a 'potential'. 😪

Reading, reading, reading. Take her to the library every week or so and let her choose books.

Mathsfactor for sound methodology. One session a day, but it really adds up over the year.

Agree with the above post. Not at the breakfast table - relax and talk.

Also talk to the school and ask about how they are deciding these things - they may not be able to prove greater depth at this stage of the year I know DD was always on track until the final report of the year when she could be at greater depth

We also keep weekly extra curriculars quite pared down. DS2 does swimming on both Saturday and Sunday. And he practices his instrument on both days. On Sunday they both play some tennis with their dad.

so eg Sunday is swimming from 9:30-10 for DS2. DH and DS2 go to the library for their weekly book swap and grab a snack so they are home by 11ish. DS2 does music practice from say roughly 11:30-12.
DS1 is home and wakes up at 9 and practices from 10-12. I am home, don’t fully supervise it but keep an eye on him.
We have lunch together at noon and downtime till 2:30ish. Might watch a movie, board games, kids might play outside if the weather is decent.
Then they go play tennis with DH till 4.
Home and 4:30-6 DS1 practices again.
I sit and do some work with DS2 and then he plays. Sometimes he does a second practice too but rarely. One of us makes dinner.
We all have dinner at 6.
DH then works with DS1 for a bit say 7-7:45. I leave the science and math to him.
Then DS2 is in bed with lights out by 7:30. I normally read to him.
DS1 then mooches around with us adults. If he has a concert/competition he might practice again but also he hangs around with us chatting or cuddling the cat till we shoo him off to bed around 9ish.

I'm a primary teacher. It's actually very difficult to achieve greater depth in Year 6. The expected standard actually incorporates quite a wide range of abilities. A child can be very bright and working at the top of the expected standard rather than at greater depth.

SATS results only play a very small part, when a child starts secondary school. Yes, the school take the results onboard but most will do their own assessments within the first 2 weeks of the start of term, in September. It's those results the secondary school will be interested in, not SATS. Reading is extremely important, as it helps with all aspects of written work and spelling. Times tables, form the basis of maths, if a child knows their tables fluently, not just learning the answers! Then this will help them going forward. All children's grades will fluctuate, over the years, this is normal.

If neither you nor DH have the time she needs a maths and English tutor. The ‘racing to finish without comprehension’ is often a sign she might find reading difficult and actually might be a level lower than even her teacher realises. The way to help with this is daily worksheets, spelling tests, making her read books and then write a book report / answer questions about it. Kumon can be good for a child like this but you need to spend time at home on the worksheets

I've got a child the same age, so just as list of the things I can think of.

Start a book club with some friends, so they can chat about the content and help comprehension. We're about to do this and will go to the cafe to discuss over hot chocolate. Here is a book list: https://schoolreadinglist.co.uk/

Doodle maths is good. It's an app with 6 tailored questions a day. Starts with a baseline assessment. It's quite expensive though.

Times table Rockstars.

BBC bitesize is great.

Creative writing I'm sure you can set up at home.

I've been told multiple times though that SATs are rubbish and that most secondary schools do their own assessments in year 7 because the ordinary of schools give kids too much support and it's not an accurate reflection of their ability.

I would not worry about this. I used to teach secondary school and we put very little stock in SATS results. Pupils would start year 7 taught in their form groups then we would complete are own assessments with them in the first half term and set them using that data and our impressions of them from class work etc.

Best thing you can do for them is get them discussing the books they are reading and helping them with their comprehension.

Just one thing - did your teacher not give you a sheet with targets and the bits highlighted that your DD needs to work on? We got this every year from Year 1 and in our school, those who are GD at KS1 are certainty expected to be GD at KS2. At the first parent meeting they would hand out a full print out of the end of year expectations and tell you what your DC needs to work on and give you a sheet of targets.

Also interested to know if the secondary school definitely teaches in sets? Ours doesn't, it teaches in form groups.

I was talking about homework when mentioning stories, in response to OP saying the DC dashes off homework in 5mins.

Spelling at breakfast table worked for DD1, she did them after eating but before leaving the table, so it was routine. Her school used look say cover write check, and we also used them for line drawing practice.

Would you want to work over breakfast too? It's supposed to be an enjoyable start to the day.

Hello, teacher here. Is there a chance that the teacher who marked her as Greater Depth in the earlier years was exaggerating (especially if she was away in lockdowns so there was less work to assess her on)?

It's very difficult for children to get Greater Depth in Y6 Writing - if you look at the exemplars online of what constitutes Greater Depth in Y6 SATs, it's better than an awful lot of adults could write! However, GD in Reading and Maths is much more achievable.

Do the school do assessment papers for the children every term (NFER or similar)? If so, ask if you can have DD's papers back after her assessments this term so that you can see where the gaps are for her. You can also ask what her raw and standardised scores were, and ask the teacher to explain to you what that means (e.g. did she just scrape expected / was she nearly at GD)

Ask DD questions about what she's reading. When you hear her read, ask her questions like - what is X character feeling now? How do you know that?

But also don't get hung up on SATs results for setting. Many secondary schools do their own assessments for sets and don't look at SATs!

I'm in a similar situation to you OP. I've found that small changes helped my daughter's confidence and also helped my parental guilt for not being able to do more.

She reads to me whilst I make dinner and helps to read bed time stories with me for sibling a few evenings a week (has helped her tone and expression).

I second maths apps like rock star and bbc bite size, they're great and seem to keep her attention better than writing tables. I test her for 5 mins of the car journey to school. If she's bussing home, teacher gave good advice recently to listen to pod casts (Boudicca stories for history which she is learning about atm).

These are really bite sized things but she has built confidence quickly on basics.

I was an early reader and academically able at an early age. Then I peaked all through school and finished with barely a smattering of o levels. I did go onto university and do well later

what I’m trying to say is that we go through periods of ableness, troughs and peaks again

Some schools keep a mixed form group, especially in the earlier years, but they will definitely be in sets for maths etc. It just wouldn't work otherwise with the range of abilities.

You do what works for you.

My DD's much preferred to do reading and spellings before school when fresher, then after school was relaxing time. Homework on Saturday mornings when in primary.

It is only a suggestion for the OP, not child slavery!

Are you on the thread to undermine op's question and jump on people sharing what has worked for them?
You are allowed to say your opinion and then just let OP choose what feels right without quoting and replying to everyone whose advice/ experience you disagree with.

If it makes you feel better, mine has also known all his times tables since year 3, reads independently, could tell you anything about the habitat of the snow shoe hare or the harpy eagle, is regularly asked to mentor and help struggling kids, and has never got a greater depth! We've been told that school have a very high bar for greater depth so although he was considered to be basically there in a few areas, they said they needed to be able to consistently evidence and prove it every which way and backwards to award a GDS. I don't see any value to me getting het up about this.

It really depends - ours is only in it for Maths (and that only a surmise as they haven’t said) another local one sets for everything straight away.

but even so being in the top set if you are a more top middle isn’t the best place to be and some only stay there due to tutoring

I agree it is best to work in a group of your own ability - I remember the sense of fear in honours maths where it was moving a bit too fast for my brain.

Some schools don't tell the children they are being placed in sets. I am looking at secondary schools for my son in two years and at open days most schools are quite open about it and happy to talk about their system. But I went to a Harris Academy and when I asked (in a room full of parents and students) the teacher looked horrified by my lack of tact and very quietly explained that while of course the children are grouped by ability, they would never say this to them. I did wonder how they could possible unaware but I didn't like to ask the children in case they really didn't know.

I hate to be the person who suggests this as it seems every second child has a diagnosis, but ...

-Boundless energy
-Never gets tired
-Rushes through her work
-Slapdash
-Competitive

It might be worth considering whether ADHD is a factor here.

Our school just report on reading, writing and maths. Our DD has always been GD in maths but never in reading or writing even though she is strong in both. Apparently it's harder to achieve it in them and lots of very able kids get a tiny shade below it. DD's teacher says she will absolutely smash the sats across the board.

Your dd is SO lucky that you’re facilitating the sport. It sounds wonderful! Friends, connection, challenge, purpose, physical activity - all massively supporting mental health and wellbeing.

Don’t worry about SATS. At my younger kids’ school, more pupils got into grammar schools last year than got GD in writing in SATS. My dc’s y6 teacher told us that if you can get GD a writing, you could probably take your GCSE English right now. Y7 teachers ignore SATS results and reassess because they mostly reflect how well children have been drilled. They’re a faulty measure and cause untold stress and harm to teachers and children.

My older kids have finished school and I’ve radically changed my approach with the younger two. The drilling and pressure was so counterproductive!

We talk a lot at mealtimes and we try to invest in their interests. We read to them and explain what words mean. They go the library most weeks and read every night in bed. My DD loves homework and is always looking for more challenge and she does workbooks for fun, but DC3 resents homework and has been described as slapdash too, so we try to treat homework as a chance to learn to apply yourself to something that has to be done, whether it’s fun or not. But frankly, getting the homework done well isn’t a priority. We talk about what’s going on in their friendship groups, what they saw on Newsround, etc. No way are we making him do extra.

Children can flourish when they’re mentally healthy, equipped to manage stress and know how to regulate their nervous system. Thankfully, your child is getting a lot of that stuff from sport - such a good foundation for the challenges of secondary school and adolescence. Much more helpful than knowing the difference between the present perfect and the present continuous!

Good luck, OP. We don’t have to be perfect as parents. We just need to be good enough.