DD on track rather than greater depth

[Thedownstream]

Just had Parents Evening for DD who is in Year 5. Early on in her school life she was greater depth in Reading, Maths and Science but since the middle of year 2 she has dropped back and now is always meeting age related expectations for the core subjects and never anything more. She gets greater depth consistently in PE, Computing, PHSE and sometimes Geography, but they’re not the core subjects.

EY and Year 1 for her were the years she missed out on schooling due to Covid, and I really tried hard with the homeschooling despite her reluctance. Two younger siblings later and I admit I’ve taken the eye of the ball and DH never had his eye on it, and we’ve not done the readings or spellings with her we should have done, and whilst she’s done her homework every week it’s been a case of let her hand in whatever even if it’s taken her 5 minutes. I feel like we’ve failed her and she should be achieving more. She’s bright (I think) but very slapdash and very competitive. Every teacher has fed back that she needs to take more care with her work and not just rush to finish first. Same feedback tonight.

DH and I both work and DD plays sport 4 nights per week, plus she has two younger siblings that need attention. We barely have enough time to feed them with rushing around let alone anything else!

So what would you focus on at home to help her reach her potential? We’ve started enforcing reading for 20 minutes each morning and I was thinking of getting her to practice spellings then too. But is there anything else we can do with such limited time?

I want her to do as well in her SATS next year as possible. Our local secondary isn’t great behaviour wise if you’re not in top sets. I feel we owe it to her to help her get the best results she can to set her up well for secondary. I don’t think a tutor for SATS is the answer. I don’t want her to panic under any pressure, but perhaps a tutor for English not linked to SATS (English is definitely weaker than Maths)?

Believing DC should be GD because they could read earlier than the others is like believing those who walk earlier should then be the fastest runners in KS2....

None of this stuff means much anyway. It is one set of descriptions, unevenly and inconsistently applied to a narrow set of topics.

Mine have all been in very different places at different times. The one who was not meeting ages related expectations for ages is reportedly now bordering GD in reading apparently. They develop at different rates and it's not all linear.

My secondary age dc didn't do SATs because of COVID but we're setted on entry assessment and the sets are fluid with movement every half term if needed. They're also different for different subjects. I really wouldn't get into a spin for that reason.

I believe that reading is hugely important for helping DC reach potential. Even a chapter at the beginning and end of each day, with a discussion around themes and ideas to check comprehension. You could also use the car journeys for things like audio books to share a series together and discuss unfamiliar vocab, or listen to podcasts. - history, sport, travel etc. Play board games and card games when you can - so many work on number fluency. Get a subscription to something like The Week Junior which has puzzles, book reviews and topical news stories at an age appropriate level.

Read as much as you can with her and look at Blanks levels of questioning for how to frame questions in reading.

It’s largely football (but also plays hockey). She plays at a high standard for boys and girls team, plus in a premier league club set up. She seems to have boundless energy and is never tired.

I understand swimming is a worse commitment. That we have never encouraged even though she is capable!

I've had 2 children on professional pathway.

Something has got to give. You can't expect her to be the top of the class as well as performing at those levels. It's just not realistic.

It's way too much pressure. I'm also worried that you said she struggles under pressure. That's not great if you want her to advance in sport and excel in sport.

My eldest wasn't good at pressure, he ended up giving up his sport and now has reverted to academics which suits him. Daughter now 15 still on professional pathway has a much better relationship with pressure.

Ultimately you can't expect her to be everything. It's just not reasonable.

It's interesting that you mention that she could read all her numbers up to 1,000. This type of knowledge is actually superfluous at that age. I work in a primary school (and am a parent of a primary school age child) and the focus is very much on deeper understanding of number as a foundation to build upon. For maths, I would recommend looking at the NCETM website: https://www.ncetm.org.uk/classroom-resources/progression-maps-for-key-stages-1-and-2/

Having a really good understanding of the literacy curriculum would help to understand what expectations are for her age. Asking VIPERS questions will help you to assess her comprehension which, in my experience, is what parents often fail to recognise is an area of difficulty for their child. My DS was reading fluently at Reception age, but still struggles with inference and subtext, and he won't stop himself independently if he doesn't understand a word, idiom, etc.

See the programme of study for Year 5:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-english-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-english-programmes-of-study#years-5-and-6-programme-of-study

VIPERS
https://www.literacyshedplus.com/en-us/browse/reading-vipers

Edit: relevant webpage. And just to say that it's great you care so much for her progress - but she sounds like she's well-rounded and with supportive parents that will get her very far!

She’s so young. Honestly I would just do her reading with her each day and let her continue her sport while she’s enjoying it.

If she’s going to excel at academics she will do it and if she’s not then pushing her will make her fucking miserable.

At her age (and actually at any age) being happy is much more important than being ‘top of the class’ and I absolutely would not encourage her to drop sport in terms of schoolwork in primary school. Sport teaches all kind of incredible transferable skills that will be so useful to her throughout her life and will help her to excel and also keep her emotionally and physically bealthy. Teamwork, leaning to lose, resilience, perseverance, finding satisfaction in mastering skills through practice, as well as having a friendship group outside of school are all vitally important. I wouldn’t swap all that for achieving a couple of marks higher in SATS.

To be honest, she wont be getting any less time in school than most of the other kids - the only ones who will really get meaningful extra input will be those with SEN. There will be children in her class get as little time from teaching staff as your DD who are nonetheless greater depth.

Some of that might be parental input at home, but a significant element will just be that some children are really extremely capable, soak up new stuff with loads of enthusiasm, read because they just love it, rather than a parent pushing.

A bit if additional support at home is great, as long as you dont overscaffold. As PP's have said, you can artificially inflate their sats results with extra work at home but they may just struggle if in the wrong sets at secondary.

The school reading books are usually really dull you might have more success finding a book series she is motivated to read herself eg in the car. Or listening to an audio book and talking about it. It doesn't matter what she reads as long as she is enjoying reading. DS1 always read loads but hated the reading scheme books.

Kindly, that level of extra curricular sounds a lot (four evening and both weekend days?)

I think you're really going to struggle to prioritise academics with that level of out of school commitment. I think the main thing you can do is focusing on reading. Is 30 mins per night doable as part of a bedtime routine?

My son is Yr 6 and we have always done extra work at home, but often focusing an hours' work on a Sat which will be harder for you if you DD isn't getting much rest time.

I also would look ahead and think about how she is going to cope with the level of homework when she gets to secondary. It sounds like she's doing more than one sport so maybe it's time to focus on one to free up time?

Her sports schedule is removing time better spent on relaxing and doing homework in a more sustained way. Four nights a week and both weekend mornings is far too much, imo.

Honestly if she is staying on track while blasting through her work without a care, I wouldn't worry too much. She is excelling at the things she loves and is able to meet whatever standard she needs across the board without effort - sounds like a recipe for success. Might be better in the long run than feeling she has to be excellent at everything but not knowing what she wants to do.

It is great she is doing sports multiple days a week and it is fully possible to be GDS in all subjects and keep a busy schedule....so I would not drop any unless she wants to or unless she is really struggling. Perhaps, encourage her to look over her work and not rush through it.

Exactly this. Don't drop the sport!

It's easy peasy to be above average in infants as an eldest (i mean birth order but the sportiness made me think she might be autumn born too?) girl child with no SEN from an undeprived family but it all levels out a bit. I had two precocious Bella from the Tweenies types and one that was slower and they're all similar now.

Is she coping with the routine? are you? Are her siblings if they have their own or have to attend too? If she isn't truly likely to be a professional then I would re-evaluate and dial it back a bit.

The best thing about COVID was it made us stop, we evaluated all of the rushing around and DDs extracurricular and massively dialed it back and it made a huge difference. DD used to read to me in the car on the way to the activity with a little reading light when it was dark. Spellings we did them all on the first night and then just the ones she got wrong on future nights and we did it verbally as we were sitting in the car or walking somewhere. It worked but looking back was daft, DD was an excellent reader so I never really pushed that as she doesn't like novels really although it turns out does love poetry.

You and your DC need time for sport and schoolwork and downtime.

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to comment. I don’t think we’ll reduce the sport (unless she wants to). It puts a strain on both of our jobs but she loves it, and it has helped with confidence, forming good friendships with girls, and has firmly put to bed any gender questioning issues she used to have now she has found girls like her. She’s also one of those children who needs to be exercised. If she has a few days off due to a minor injury she becomes utterly unbearable 🤣.

My DD2 is the opposite and even thinking about the walk to school makes her tired.

We’ll just have to fit in more reading in the time we have. Become more efficient. I did manage to listen to her read for 10 minutes this morning and was actually impressed with her comprehension. I have no one to compare it to but at least I hope she’s reading a book at the moment and understanding it (rather than reading the later Harry Potter books and not having a clue).

She’s summer born so one of the youngest playing in her sports teams. I think academic wise that things have probably evened out by now between the oldest and youngest.

There’s not really any such thing as GD in anything other than reading, writing and maths.

https://www.literacyshedblog.com/uploads/1/2/5/7/12572836/ks2_reading_vipers.pdf

Here you go, to help with reading comprehension. Inference is the one to focus on for greater depth reading. if you ask two questions a day and do 10 minutes reading 5 times a week it will make a huge difference. Especially if she builds a vocabulary bank (feeds into spelling too).

Your DD sounds gifted in sports. I would be encouraging that. She sounds amazing.

Atom Learning has an expensive monthly programme around £40 (Maths, English and Science). Maybe do a free trial in the next holidays. It’s the kind of thing a child could do in the summer holidays regularly and consolidate everything.

The other thing to focus on is creative writing. They do it at school - how to write a diary entry, recipes, letters (formal & informal), stories, continue a story, write a speech/debate etc but a lot of them need some extra practice. If they can write a basic essay with a clear beginning middle and end, use good and varied conjunctions it will help later on. You see GSCEs are about answering precisely and clearly using the vocab they want even in subjects such as biology. This is why literacy and reading skills really are fundamental.

I have a child who does quite high level music (he’s 13) so several hours of practice per day and weekend conservatory and chamber music. It’s not as tiring as sport but takes up a lot of time. He’s very bright academically and we have always sat down and worked with him (and his younger sibling who is 8).
Reading is a start and a very good one. Also we encourage reading at all times as a default option over screens.

We sit down with him and his brother for 20-30 mins each day to go over concepts, ideas, see what they are learning. This is on top of high school homework which can be up to 40 mins a day. We also spent 45 mins or more on each of the weekends on their curriculum.
We ask him what he’s doing in school and we revise it together or find some adjacent activity to do. At 10 we would do some verbal comprehension, go over basic maths concepts a few times a week, but also find out what they were studying in science/humanities and just went over it with them. If I am super duper busy I might print out a worksheet that will say take 25 mins and then we’ll go over it together for 10 mins. And yes, practicing creative writing is also good. We might plan a story one day, write it over the next day and then read it together the day after to see how it could be better. DS2 enjoys this so much that he wants me to get him a book where he can write all the final versions of his stories. DS1 was less creative but it also helped his vocabulary.

It’s a good way to connect to the kids as well- they know they each get a dedicated slot with me every single day.

@MangshorJhol do you work? How do you find the time for this?

My DC1 is 6 and learning an instrument, and we struggle to fit in 30 mins practice per day (15 mins x 2, though we do practice with him). Both work full time.

Spellings at the breakfast table.
Keep up reading in the school holidays.
Pay attention to homework - help her get learning value from it rather than dashing it off (this could be for you as little as, I see you have to write a story, I need it to be at least 1 page long) (or I see you have to research Henry VIII, make sure you find at least 10 facts)

She's reaching her targets (and beyond in some), yet you're still not happy?

I am an academic so my schedule at the back end of the day is relatively flexible. DH is a physician and an academic. He’s a little less flexible on clinic days especially but is home by 4:30.
Small one reads and relaxes from 4:30-5. Does any school homework if there is any (usually 10 mins). Might do some Duolingo. I make sure dinner is ready.
5-5:30 is practice with me
5:30-6 some work with me for DS8
6-6:30 is dinner
then bath, reading and lights off by 7:30.

Big boy is of course far more independent as he’s a teenager. He’s home by 5.
5-6 he does his own homework. I am usually practicing and working with DS8 so I am right there but I don’t micro manage this.
6-6:30 Dinner
Has a shower and practices 7-8:30 and then maybe piano with headphones (not every night).
Somewhere between 8:30-9:30 I do some work with him. Or usually DH does.

He reads and is asleep by 10.

DH and I then both work for an hour or more. And yes, I am exhausted and the idiot cats woke me up in the middle of the night (I am in the US) so I will be murderous tomorrow. Not to mention the election results.

And?
Those doing well at the early stages don't always continue.
DS was always in the very top maths group throughout primary yet at secondary some of the pupils who were in middle groups at primary (in the same class) ended up in the same (top) maths class as him and did just as well or even better.

A tutor in primary school? Why? Aren't they allowed to just be children?