Deferred entry AFTER starting reception

[JaneyDavey]

Hi all, really hoping someone has had a positive outcome in this situation…

Dd is August born and started reception in September, though I’d been unsure about sending her this year. It definitely isn’t working out well at this school. In her second week they told her off in front of the class for wetting herself (because she got confused about putting her hand up when the teacher was talking), and last week they told her off for always being last to get changed after P.E. Tonight she was crying and asking me to send her to a different school. So dh and I agree that we want to find a different school, but we now also think it’s just too soon. This has become really evident since she started. As a summer born, we could have applied for a deferred reception start if we’d done that when we applied last December, but as I understand it, if we take her out now to give her another year in nursery to just play, then she’d automatically join year 1 next September, with no way to defer so she does reception next year. Which would defeat the point of taking her out, as she’d still end up being the youngest again, and maybe behind from not having this year of early phonics etc in school (they do some phonics at her nursery but it’s very basic).
Has anyone had any success in taking their summer born child out of reception and then getting a deferred re-entry for the year after?

I would speak to the head teacher as I have known things like this happen eg move from year one back to year R. These things are possible but you have to push.
The other option is go part time until she is 5. I’ve seen this happen successfully as the child often goes in the morning and that’s when phonics are usually taught. Might be worth a try.
Also speak with the head about her feeling upset about the way she is being spoken to.

Have you spoken to the school? She shouldn't be treated like this in the first year of school. I agree with her, I would urgently find another school. You don't want her school life shaping by a poor reception teacher.

Not sure about deferring her but I would be taking to the teacher. Toileting accidents and slow to change for PE is very much to expected from some four year olds in early years and not something they should be getting told off for. Have you clarified that she was told off? If she was I wouldn’t be happy about that.

Told her off - I would want to know more about this and what she takes as a telling off. Of course you have to tell them not to wet themselves and to get changed if they're last. Does she mean they were unnecessarily harsh or does she just not like rules?

Would you be able to find a nursery place?

I'd probably look into it, maybe look for another school place, but keep her going part time at least.

They need to be corrected sometimes at school, they've got 30 kids at wildly different stages of development, used to being in childcare, able to follow instructions etc. A lot of reception is getting them to be capable of being in class.

If you find a school with spaces you will still be able to defer now.
Join the deferred entry for summer barns Facebook group for lots of advice.

Go part time and find another school. She won't reach compulsory school age until September next year (the start of term after turning 5).

Our August born child started reception last year. He had wee accidents about once per day for the first term as he only started using the toilet in July (he really wasn't getting it despite us trying really hard). We sent a spare pair of trousers/pants/socks in his book bag for him. His teachers never told him off they just helped him get changed. It sounds like the reception teacher maybe is inexperienced or hasn't taught reception before? They shouldn't be making children feel bad for accidents, there's reams of evidence on this.

On top of that, even at our very strict faith school they don't make them get changed into PE kit by themselves until Y1, so reception go to school in their PE kit and every other school we viewed, the children go to school in PE kit on PE days all the way to Y6, so what your school is doing there doesn't sound great, either.

If your child seemed ready in every other way for school, I'd look at a different school. Did nursery say anything about whether she was ready for school this year? I was worried about sending DC1 but nursery were so positive about him being ready for school.

OK, as someone who is currently teaching in Reception I would say you need to get the facts from an adult before taking the word of your 4 year old literally. And also, she doesn’t get to decide which school she goes to!
She may well have been spoken to about wetting herself, lots of children wet themselves in Early Years settings until they get used to the systems. That doesn’t mean they are shouted at. Also, if the adult spoke to her to hurry up because she was going to be last getting changed for PE, again thats fairly standard. Was she too busy chatting? Wandering around? Playing with the activities set out? All commonplace for a 4 year old.
So heres what I suggest. First, speak to the teacher about toilet protocols - although if it only happened once a month ago shes probably sussed this out herself. Second, get her PE kit out at home, pop her in her uniform and watch her get changed. Then you can see what she can manage unaided and what she needs to practice. I know our little ones really find getting their jumpers off a struggle. Finally, don’t let her give up at the first sign of a struggle - resilience is a really important skill to acquire!

Our reception children change themselves - most of them can manage with minimal assistance. They wont learn to do it if they arent given the opportunity to practice.

Are you sure this really happened? How awful.

Your DD should certainly not be going through such an experience.

My DD turned 4 on 30th of June. She was so tiny. They're treating her age like an additional need. She sits at the table with a shared classroom assistant and does more water play etc. But she doesn't seem to be minding. They wouldn't dream of treating her like this. I have seen her teacher blinking back tears when she is talking to some children who have it tough at home.

They won't learn to do it if their fine motor skills aren't at the right point yet. September children will be at that point but August children probably won't... because they're almost a year younger (there will of course be exceptions). That's why ours start in Y1. 🤷‍♀️

Keep on practicing getting changed and unchanged at home. Whatever school she goes to, this will be useful. If it’s tights that’s the issue then send her in trousers or socks on PE days for speed. If she’s messing around then school aren’t unreasonable to have a word.

My kids used to say shout when it wasn’t actually shouting. They felt that a telling off from their Ta/teacher was so serious (compared to me telling them off) that they’d use the word shout when no voices were raised. You should check with the teacher about this. They aren’t unreasonable to have a word to your dd about this - hopefully she knows what to do now.

I would be having a chat with the teacher and getting my head around what happened before making any kneejerk reactions. It's so hard at this age because we have to balance making our children feel heard and protecting them with acknowledging that they often talk pure bullcrap. Mine is 6 and will still accuse me of 'shouting' at her when really I'm offering the most gentle of corrections.

I don't necessarily think deferring is a bad idea. Mine is April born, most of the girls in her class are october/november. For the first year at least there was a massive difference in maturity. However, she's always done well academically and had no problem making friends.

Get the full story and go with your gut re changing schools/deferring. It's important to advocate for your child but remember that if you have reactive, extreme and anxious/angry responses to every mishap then this will be how your child learns to react to things and it's going to be a long 12 years....

The thing is, what a child calls being told off differs.

Yes if they spoke harshly or showed her up in front of other kids etc, that's not right. But if it was just telling her to hurry up and get herself to the loo next time - tbh that's just instruction, not telling off.

Any school would have to set boundaries on those things. What upsets one child might be water off a duck's back to another. Kids need to develop a bit more resilience.

Think about it - 29 kids in pe kit in school hall, op's daughter still dawdling and needing a staff member to stay with her - she needs to be told in no uncertain terms to hurry up.

You really shouldn't send her to a different school because she asks op - she's a child. You make the decisions. She shouldn't have that power as a child.

And actually if you give her the message that school is not nice, might be optional, being told off is unfair - you could build up a whole heap of problems for years to come.

Make an objective decision on whether it's a good school. Wherever she goes, she needs to follow rules and know she's not the centre of the universe. That's part of school.

This is so sad and a big reason I'm deferring. Teachers are desperate to make kids behave like short adults.

If you find a school willing to accept deferrals you can apply for next year into reception.

What's sad about it?

Sounds more like parents infantilising children way past the time they should be capable of getting dressed and using the toilet.

Then being pissed off at teachers who are having to bring kids up to speed with tasks the parents should have taught them.

School isn't nursery and it isn't home. You cannot run a school if kids don't have the basic skills and their parents kick off if you try to give them those skills.

It's not harsh on kids, it's actually depressing what low expectations parents have and how little resilience kids will have if they're never shown how to push through slight unpleasantness.

My DD turned 4 on 30th of June. She was so tiny. They're treating her age like an additional need
Really? I had two August borns, they certainly weren’t treated as having additional needs, nor were their (several) August born peers.

Following with interest as my daughter is August born and due to start next Sep. I'm fairly confident she will be OK but I'd like to have the option of applying for reception again the following year if she struggles and isnt ready for KS1 - I'm planning to ask the question at a few schools tours we have coming up so il post here if I get told anything useful!

I'm saying this kindly OP but I think you are going about this the wrong way and that the fact she is August born is a red herring here. There are plenty of children in reception, no matter their age, who don't manage to get to the toilet in time and are slow to get dressed and undressed for PE/ Forest etc.

I'm not a great believer in deferring the year unless it's absolutely necessary and all the more so in your daughter's case because she's already started. Unless you are worried about how she's coping generally I don't think from what you've said that you’ll be doing her any favours by pulling her out now, and especially as it doesn't seem that you've spoken to the teacher.

My advice is speak to her first. Share your concerns about what your daughter has told you and ask her how she thinks your daughter is coping. I have had 4 children go through reception and have had plenty of wet clothes sent home in a bag. There may have been a few eyes raised at handover as if to say he/she did it again but I genuinely believe that none of them were ever shouted at for not getting to the toilet in time, Unless they are absolute saints I bet there isn't a teacher on earth you hasn't commented on the consequences of being slow to get changed - some may have a more kindly manner than others but I’d be very surprised if they actually raised their voice. Other posters have said that you shouldn’t just be relying on your daughter’s version of events, and that she shouldn’t be dictating to you that she changes school and I absolutely agree.

Deferring gives your child an advantage (the same advantage as being born September - December) - some people disagree with letting some children choose that advantage, especially as it tends to benefit more privileged children.

But your first responsibility is to your child - if you can give them an advantage I would.

In my 2 form reception, it’s pretty obvious that motor skills development isn't necessarily linked to age. Some of our August born are very capable of dressing / undressing / using scissors correctly. Just as some of our September born, who are 11 months older, can’t put a coat on or hold a knife and fork correctly.

So you're agreeing then basically that children in reception can't necessarily be expected to know how to dress themselves, you're just disagreeing that it's an unnecessary headache for the teacher and stressful for the children who aren't there yet to get them to dress themselves when it's developmental, even though the clear solution is to just let them come in wearing PE kit on PE days?

Certainly in the case of a child who isn't there yet, it seems silly to expect them to be able to tie their tie, fasten all their shirt buttons, tuck their shirt in and do their jumper by themselves (and tights for girls in this weather) under the pressure of a time constraint, in front of other children, and with an adult chivvying them along. It doesn't seem to be a good way to build their confidence TBH compared to having an extra year to practice at home.

Across the board I've never taught in a school where all the children under 6 could put their own zip together to zip their coat up, or do their shirt buttons.

I'm all for having high expectations of children but not destroying them or shaming them for not meeting unrealistic goals or making them feel like it's their fault for things that are actually developmental. OP's daughter has been pitted against the other children, compared unfavourably by the teacher and left feeling less confident and capable. She's also been shamed for missing the toilet. That's not good or effective teaching, it's setting them up to fail. That's why I think another school would be better for her.

Independance is a series of skills that include (but aren’t limited to) eating with a knife and fork, being able to articulate your needs, going to the toilet (and wiping yourself). If you haven’t spent time developing these before school then it doesn’t matter how good they are at phonics / maths they will never learn as effectively as other kids. In OP’s case it’s probably better just to change school and start again - but this time make it clear to the new school what she can’t do.

How have you extrapolated from what I’ve said that that we are ‘destroying them or shaming them’? What we actually do is teach them. We practice putting coats on, putting shoes on the right feet, we don't have ties or shirts with buttons, anyone who wears tights we suggest they don't wear them on PE days - but they still have to pull them up and down to use the toilet.