Deferred entry AFTER starting reception

[JaneyDavey]

Hi all, really hoping someone has had a positive outcome in this situation…

Dd is August born and started reception in September, though I’d been unsure about sending her this year. It definitely isn’t working out well at this school. In her second week they told her off in front of the class for wetting herself (because she got confused about putting her hand up when the teacher was talking), and last week they told her off for always being last to get changed after P.E. Tonight she was crying and asking me to send her to a different school. So dh and I agree that we want to find a different school, but we now also think it’s just too soon. This has become really evident since she started. As a summer born, we could have applied for a deferred reception start if we’d done that when we applied last December, but as I understand it, if we take her out now to give her another year in nursery to just play, then she’d automatically join year 1 next September, with no way to defer so she does reception next year. Which would defeat the point of taking her out, as she’d still end up being the youngest again, and maybe behind from not having this year of early phonics etc in school (they do some phonics at her nursery but it’s very basic).
Has anyone had any success in taking their summer born child out of reception and then getting a deferred re-entry for the year after?

Of course these things are linked to age as generally dont have non sen 6 yo wetting themself etc.

Its just not obvious in a group of 30-60. Similar to walking with average age 12m there will be some 9-18m and some 2y+.

Op if you withdraw as its past the census day you may not get any preschool funding. ..

Deferring wont fix everything, it wont make an average child exceed. But less likely to be behind. So more confident.
Some kids dont like being told to hurry up or be last so thats less likely if oldest.

I actually think being born nov-mar is most ideal as they have better friendships..

Basically 4yo often need more 1-2-1 than they would get in a class of 30. Its exhausting for them to sit still and pay attention. And across the board many struggle to write and they get bad habits.

I suspect as you've started then you may find it very difficult to get deferred now.

But she's said she's been told off, go and find what was actually said, because it's far more likely that it was something along the lines of a gentle encouragement to not do it again.
I remember dd2 telling me she'd had the worst day ever, been in big trouble for not bringing her reading book in, and then she'd found it in her drawer and been told off for not looking properly.
Reality was she was asked to bring her reading book, thought it wasn't there, so rather than saying went off to play. Teacher called her again so she said she hadn't got it, and the teacher looked in her drawer, found it and said to her "MiniMargaret, I've found your book, come and read."
I have that on good authority from an adult (parent helper) that I trusted.

I’ve spoken to her teacher. After the incident with dd wetting herself I talked to her, expecting to be honest to hear that dd was being a bit sensitive, but she smirked throughout the conversation and was weirdly proud of her reaction. She admitted that when dd said “I think I’ve had an accident”, she said in front of the class “we’ll have you or haven’t you?”. She then told my daughter that it’s bad behaviour, again, in front of the class. More recently I mentioned her feeling like she’s in trouble for taking a long time to get dressed, and she said she can’t help how my dd feels. I haven’t spoken to the head teacher but I will do, though at this point I feel pretty sure that it isn’t the school for her

That teacher sounds a total delight OP.

I really hope you get it sorted. I'd ring around schools for an in-year transfer, somewhere might have a space and they can sort it pretty quickly once you've made the decision.

@Haroldwilson

She took telling off to be being asked, in front of a class, “have you or haven’t you had an accident?” when she said she thought she’d had an accident. The teacher then told her that was bad behaviour, again in front of the class. DD explained to me why she hadn’t put her hand up to ask to go to the toilet, and it was a totally understandable mistake for a barely 4 year old to make. And the teacher confirmed all of the above when I spoke to her, a conversation throughout which she smirked. Not only is that an unreasonable chastisement, she made a tiny child ashamed. Prior to this she hadn’t had an accident in almost a year.

To get back to your original question, where I am, if you have enrolled at a school then the opportunity to defer has gone.

Do you actually think any child needs to be told off for wetting themselves or that it’s just the 4 year old “not liking rules”??

Have you contacted the school over the teacher calling it bad behaviour? Because that is outrageous and you absolutely need to raise this officially with the school.

No, they will certainly be able to change their clothes. I’ve never come across an able bodied 15 year old who couldn’t put their tights back on, a child who was 3 merely weeks ago is totally different.
Not being left to their own devices in reception to get themselves changed does not mean “they won’t learn to do it”. What a ridiculous comment.

Rather than reply to everyone individually; I have clarified with her teacher the details surrounding the accident and the teacher confirmed that my dd said she thought she’d had an accident, to which the teacher said “we’ll have you or haven’t you?” And then told her it was bad behaviour, all in front of the class. She smirked the whole way through this conversation with me. Similarly she confirmed the dd is slow at getting changed and that they find it very frustrating. I told them that dd thinks they don’t like her and that she thinks makes them sad, and she said “I can’t help how your daughter feels”.

I totally understand that teachers aren’t parents and kids need to learn. But she’s barely 4 and prior to this she hadn’t had an accident in almost a year. I also believe the teacher’s response to the slow changing clearly indicates that they aren’t just encouraging her to hurry up in a positive way.

I’m not a knee jerk reaction sort of parent, but all my instincts are telling me that things aren’t going to improve under this teacher.

Teacher sounds like a nightmare.

Yes, it is possible to remove her and defer still, though it’s not necessarily simple. Join the Facebook group Flexible School Admissions for Summer Borns. Masses of info in there and support with how to word applications etc.

You've never known a child under 6 to be able to do their own zip up? Well if they're never encouraged to try, they're never going to be able to. On the contrary, in 15 years of teaching Reception I've only ever had a handful in each class who can't do this by Christmas, and they're usually SEN. We are constantly modelling it, encouraging them to try, over egging the praise with those who do try for themselves and whooping with delight when they achieve it. For most, it's very achievable if they're encouraged to try. If an adult does it daily for them because they believe they are too young, of course they won't be able to. You say you're all for having high expectations, and yet you seem to have set the bar extremely low in terms of what you believe 4/5 year olds are capable of.

Before Covid, it was completely normal for all year groups to change into PE kit at school. In Reception we'd do shoes and socks off in the first half term, and a full change after that. Yes it would take 20 minutes to get them all changed and 30 minutes to get them changed back to start with, but the skills they learned about how to dress/undress themselves and be responsible for their own belongings was invaluable. Personally I hate that we've lost that since Covid. We've ended up with a national of 5 year olds who can't dress themselves independently because someone at home always does it for them. Despite what you seem to believe, that is not normal!

Escalate this to the head. This is totally unacceptable behaviour by the teacher.

You've never known a child under 6 to be able to do their own zip up?
That's not what I said. Try reading it properly instead of putting words into my mouth.

I'm going to ignore the rest and other derails because the derail isn't helpful for OP and other PPs have already put my thoughts across succinctly.

OP, you definitely need to speak to the teacher to clarify what has happened. I would be very shocked if she has actually been told off for wetting, but it's very common for children of this age to feel acute embarrassment at such a situation so it's understandable how she may have felt like she was told off, even if it was in fact a simple "oh dear, let's get you changed". I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I'd be very shocked that anyone working with 4 year olds would tell a child off for this. Same with the changing. She may have been chivvied on, "come on, you don't want to be last do you?", or maybe she was doing too much chatting and was told to stop and focus on getting changed. A 4 year old's perception of a telling off can often be different to reality.

Did she really say she wants to go to a different school, or did you ask her if she would like to? I only ask because, in my experience, most 4 year olds at the start of Reception don't yet realise there's a whole big world out there with other schools to potentially go to. Most just accept their school is their school. I have honestly never heard of a 4 year old asking to go to a different school before, unless a grown up has planted the seed that this could be a possibility.

Speak to head. If no joy move schools.

I apologise for missing the world 'all' in your post. Of course not 'all' 6 year olds can do it. Not all of any age group will be able to do certain things, due to additional needs. If we're talking your average 6 year old with no SEN though, I would absolutely expect them to be able to do their own coat up by 6 if they've been encouraged to keep trying and don't always rely on adults to do things for them. If they can't, I would genuinely be considering SEN.

I still don't agree with the rest of what you claim, about how many Reception children are apparently not being developmentally ready to dress themselves, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm on here scouring for info about applying for my August born son for next year and reading this was heartbreaking. I think your instincts are spot on, and even if nobody else agreed, it's what you see as best for you DD that matters most. Do you have the option of putting her back into a nursery setting? I know legally a child only has to be in full time education the term after they turn 5. I'm not sure how that would work in terms of getting her in somewhere next year, but even if you wanted to move her to another school now it would be a case of finding one with an available place, so maybe visit some and get on the waiting lists? I'm sure there are people with better knowledge than me of how to move at this point, contacting your LA could be a start. But yeah, that's appalling behaviour from the teacher, proper Trunchbull stuff. Good luck and I hope your DD is feeling a bit better about it with your support.

I agree. Absolutely no compassion at all. This teacher needs to be performance managed or quit the profession. A normal response is to feel sad and concerned that a four year old feels unliked and look at your own behaviour towards them as someone in a position of power.