Excellent reading ability, poor writing ability

[Towmcir]

Hi

My daughter is in year 4 and at the end of last year her report was very much “excellent reader, needs to work on writing”.

She is keen enough to work on this at home so we did over summer, but hand on heart I know she’s made next to no progress. She writes slowly, constantly gets distracted, never knows what to write and just finds writing very hard generally. It can take her 15 minutes to write a short paragraph.

On the other hand, her reading is exceptional (she will read and understand anything we put in front of her, on Accelerated Reader she’s at 5.0 - 7.4). She reads with ease and loves it, although when reading out loud she seems to be very much reading by sight and sometimes slips up/misses individual words when she has predicted them wrong.

Writing has always been a weak point, but it seems that over the last year it’s become much more noticeable to her and the differential between reading and writing ability is causing problems with her ability groupings at school on occasion because they are so wildly different.

Maths is distinctly average if this is relevant!

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this before I approach the teacher? He is lovely and I get the feeling he will be helpful, I just don’t want to appear too demanding if this really is a non-issue.

I’m a KS2 teacher. Is she able to explain what a sentence is? I know it sounds really basic but every year I have to spend the first half term going over this with my Year 6s! If she’s confident with that then she will be able to make it more complex by adding more punctuation, grammatical features etc.

It’s hard to know if it is something or nothing. If it’s something I would say it would be dyslexia so maybe that’s the discussion with the teacher?

Things to try:

Can she dictate to someone?
If she can do that then the physical act of writing may be a problem. It can be painful full or difficult for some children.

If so there are various pens and grips that you can try.

Also try getting her to type a story. Dies that make a difference?

If it's not the physical act of writing, then is it the ideas?

In which case getting something like story dice or playing the What happens next game might help?

She would spout the definition of a sentence (“starts with a capital, ends in a full stop”) but wouldn’t think deeper or more abstract than that.

She needs reminded about capitals and full stops, and I think at least part of this is due to the time it is taking to write anything down so forgetting where she was at constantly.

I find the attention thing very odd due to her excellent attention when reading, and wonder whether it’s because she’s really struggling and looking for any excuse not to write (even though she says she wants to).

Is dyslexia really an option when she’s so good at reading? I always thought that reading and writing would go hand in hand!

Our children are so similar! She might find it hard to write because she’s not sure how to do it? If you get her to start writing simple sentences and then add to them. Colourful semantics is a lovely activity to do! I would mention to the teacher although they’re probably aware, it’s still good for them to know you’ve noticed it too.

You need to try to unpick if it's the physical act of writing that's so hard that all the other stuff goes out of the window - or if she's not aware about all the other stuff (like punctuation).

DD2 is an excellent reader but was poor at writing - she has a diagnosis of DCD (what was called dyspraxia) and basically you can have it neat - or you can have good content - she can't do both at once.

Thanks for the thoughts.

For dictating, we did wonder if the writing itself was the hardship and we did try this! The result was still a very disjointed/jumping around plot or answer (and still getting distracted). Basically seemed like a thought dump, and she didn’t get any idea of structure which I definitely do think is harder verbally.

Typing is something we are working on, she can’t touch type yet but if she is given something she seems to be able to spot and “fix” mistakes on a typed piece much easier than her handwritten work.

I think the problem possibly does lie with the ideas and concentration side, although verbally (just generally, when she isn’t being told to tell a story) she has a fabulous imagination. There’s just a block getting it on to paper!

A lot to think about here, thank you!

That’s not the definition of a sentence. I’ll be honest and say that I’m not 100% sure what it is 😂 but I think it has to have at least a subject and a verb. Otherwise, for example ‘A red cat.’ would be a sentence, and it isn’t (no verb). If she thinks just putting a capital and full stop in a sentence makes it correct that may be part of the problem. If she understands it has to have a subject and a verb and can be simple, compound, complex it may help her construct sentences better.

Is she any better if she types?

my daughter was on Reading Eggs over the summer and there was a ‘make a book’ activity. It had a bank of key words for the pictures so less time was spent typing out longer words. This would allow your daughter to focus more on what she is writing rather than handwriting and spelling and so on. They can then be focused on separately. My daughter is a lot younger than yours so the activities on Reading Eggs are a bit basic but it might be worth a look?

This sounds so similar to my DD (just started year 3). Reads constantly and fluently, everything from Tracy Beaker to Harry Potter, and she is rarely without a book in her hand. Struggles with writing and spelling though. She’s left handed, which I know has made handwriting a bit tricky in KS1.

Every piece of advice I read for spelling says to read - but she doesn’t stop! It’s like her writing just doesn’t match her reading. She will often muddle up sounds she knows in diagraphs too - like plaese or bleu.

Teacher not fussed and thinks she is fine. She got ‘greater depth’ for her writing on her end of yr2 report, but I really don’t know how!

Any chance she has hypermobility? I do and I find gripping a pen properly for any period of time painful. Imagine clenching all your muscles in your hand to try to control your handwriting, it really hurts so I usually just relax and let my terrible handwriting flow these days, but school was a long, soul-destroying road of getting bollocked for being messy.

You can get little rubber grips that slip on the pen/pencil that help a bit.

How are her fine motor skills? Does she draw well? Can she see? What about playing with little things, plaiting hair, anything intricate?
My child is younger than yours so can't read or write yet (reception) but has special pens and pencils for dyspraxia from the dyslexia shop which are easier to hold. My friend is a secondary senco and recommended them.

My ds is similar and has an (inattentive type) ADHD diagnosis. He reads really well, understands grammatical concepts, spells well etc. But actually going from idea in his head to words on paper requires too much focus. Medication has helped him a lot and he has improved with age and now in y6 is meeting expectations in writing (although is still much “better” at reading.

Defining a sentence is tricky.

A sentence does not need a subject or a verb.

No!

Is a sentence.

I wouldn't get hung up on definitions.

If she has problems with structure then I would start with things like:

Play consequences

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequences_(game)

Try story dice

www.storycubes.com/en/games/

Reading ability and writing ability can differ wildly in the same child.

So can the usual expectation of English and Maths being at about the same level.

Do you have self referral or GP referral to a Speech and Language Therapist, known as SaLT or an Occupational Therapist known as OT. or hopefully both.

Investigating this is within their remit, they assess separate abilities, but together can provide a comprehensive overview of a child's abilities.

e.g. It may be a physical thing like difficulty with pencil control, stamina etc.
It may be a language comprehension issue, or a processing issue.
Often it's a mixture of the two. Or nothing that can't be resolved with a few interventions.

Assessments do seem like overkill for something that only seems like a niggle now but they can identify difficulties and put interventions in place which will prevent them becoming a major issue.

Have a look at the definition of dysgraphia. Does any of it seem to fit?

Start with daily writing of fun things like Christmas lists, favourite things to do etc then journal, a favourite memory. It can be handwritten or typed.
The first thing is a love of writing things down and understanding purpose. Letter writing etc/postcard/recipe

You can build the ability to plan writing in a more complex way orally first - chat about a book. Use VIPER questions, you can model writing the answer down yourself or together.

The build up of incorporating more sophisticated vocabulary and literary devices and complex punctuation comes gradually. First recognise in books, talk about their effect and why the author used them. Ask the child to give their own example.

https://www.literacyshedblog.com/uploads/1/2/5/7/12572836/ks2_reading_vipers.pdf

How is her actual handwriting? Is it messy?
If it's the physical act of writing that is different then I'd suggest a referral to an OT for an assessment.

How are her concentration and executive functioning skills? Can she follow multi step instructions accurately?

Think about sequencing a story. Use a cartoon strip. Give her an opening cartoon and then ask her to draw each cartoon in the story. Get her to tell the story to you. She may have issues with sequences. If her work is still jumbled up when typing, she maybe needs a visual help with the structure. Or start at the end of a story and work backwards but in picture form.

This sounds like almost every kid I know, including both my DC. Lots of reading while still hating writing, both the physical act which they find uncomfortable and the pressure to think of what to say.

As it happens, oldest DC is mildly dyslexic and his love of reading really stalled in around Y4-Y5 once the type on the page of age appropriate books got smaller and there were fewer pictures. He does much better when he's allowed to use a laptop. Other DC definitely not dyslexic or anything else like that, but still hates writing especially creative writing. Forcing them to practice will help both get the muscles used to the activity, and also get them used to the idea that you just need words on the page, not tying yourself in knots about exactly what to say. Thinks like sending postcards to relatives etc which are lower pressure.

Watching with interest as I have a boy like this. He's an August birthday so very young in his year. So wasn't sure if fine motor skills are still catching up just as part of normal development. His handwriting is definitely terrible and he forgets to put finger spaces so just a jumble. But has read and understood harry Potter and horrible histories. For him I don't think it's an issue with thinking of what to say or understanding sentencesl, I think it's the physical writing it down. Last year's teacher wasn't worried, will see how this year pans out.

Mine is really resistant to writing at home though so hard to get him to practice without making it a battle and putting him off.

An EdPsych assessment would be useful to understand her abilities / struggles better.

My DS (who has ADHD and ASD) has always been a voracious reader (reading age of 15 when 9yo) and can get utterly lost into a book - no issues with concentration there! - but a writing task is like pulling teeth… he doesn’t know how to start, his extended writing (once he does get going) can be pretty rambly. It’s got a bit better since he has learned to touch type and we always tackle longer tasks on the computer (and do sometimes use dictation), but it is still very much an uphill battle.

Thanks everyone, I’ve been super busy but will look through responses tonight!