Excellent reading ability, poor writing ability

[Towmcir]

Hi

My daughter is in year 4 and at the end of last year her report was very much “excellent reader, needs to work on writing”.

She is keen enough to work on this at home so we did over summer, but hand on heart I know she’s made next to no progress. She writes slowly, constantly gets distracted, never knows what to write and just finds writing very hard generally. It can take her 15 minutes to write a short paragraph.

On the other hand, her reading is exceptional (she will read and understand anything we put in front of her, on Accelerated Reader she’s at 5.0 - 7.4). She reads with ease and loves it, although when reading out loud she seems to be very much reading by sight and sometimes slips up/misses individual words when she has predicted them wrong.

Writing has always been a weak point, but it seems that over the last year it’s become much more noticeable to her and the differential between reading and writing ability is causing problems with her ability groupings at school on occasion because they are so wildly different.

Maths is distinctly average if this is relevant!

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this before I approach the teacher? He is lovely and I get the feeling he will be helpful, I just don’t want to appear too demanding if this really is a non-issue.

The Story Mountain available online is very helpful too. You can work on small aspects of it, orally first.
Reading and Writing are very closely linked. The idea is to use the VIPERS I linked to first to be able to do that aspect. We were always specifically instructed by our state primary to follow that when reading with our DC so that they would eventually be ready for KS2 SATs. They simply don’t have time to do copious amounts of reading comprehensions in state primary schools. The school also built a word bank which I assume your DCs primary do too. You can build your own word bank at home from your child’s reading. That is the V in Vipers.

I have a very able dyslexic 10 year old. His reading is a couple of years ahead of age and he's always been good at educated guesswork from context so the issues are well masked unless you look really closely. Writing and spelling are where the cracks show.

In your shoes I think I'd be considering evaluation by an OT to rule in or out a physical cause and if not that, then assessment to investigate whether there's something in the "dys-" constellation of SpLDs and/or ADHD going on, and affecting her ability to organise her thoughts and get words onto paper. Once you know what you're dealing with (if anything) you'll be better informed about how best to support.

As a specialist, this sounds like dyslexia.
What is her memory like?

oddly with most medical conditions people wouldn't say you need to pick this apart yourself.
yes to the trained eye some stuff stands out but honestly this is the specialty of child psychologist/educational psychiatrists etc.

make an appointment.

'make an appointment' with an educational psychologist? Are you in the UK? If only it were that simple.... I am not certain of the process for getting an assessment for this particular scenario but imagine it would involve some combination of persuading the school there is a possible issue (tricky if they're reading very well and writing ok just not as well as we might expect), then the school referring then a very lengthy wait and then possibly an appointment. In the case of someone I know for a different issue it took years to persuade the school to make the referral then there was a wait just to apply to be on the waiting list for an assessment....
Which is not to say I wouldn't recommend talking to the school and exploring the options but certainly for my child I'm not holding my breath for any sort of expert involvement.

You can pay privately very easily.

yes, pay private.

Reading and writing, though connected, are two different skills. In the past it was common for poor people to be able to read, but not write, as they weren't taught both.

My son is dyslexic. Fantastic reader, great comprehension.

Struggles terribly with writing.

It was hard to get him to practice writing. His SEN explained that as he could read well, he knew his writing was poor, and it's hard to motivate yourself to do something you know is wrong.

Absolutely agree with Danascully2, if they're not well behind age-related and "can read OK", in most cases parents do have to do a lot of the unpicking and questioning and advocating ourselves. And often, obtaining and paying for reports. Unfortunately.

School Sencos can screen for risk of dyslexia, but they won't use ed psych time and funding for full assessment. I'd ask for a screener to be done in school, but be aware they are a blunt instrument, they miss nuances and false negatives aren't unusual.

If you can afford it, private dyslexia assessment is easy to access and a good way forward.

PS You said her maths is "distinctly average". How is she with memorising and rapid recall of times tables and other "maths facts"? Specific difficulties there can be a sign of working memory issues and are common with dyslexia. I guess what I'm saying is that there might be some clues in her maths too if you dig into the detail.

My son who is dyslexic was always great at reading but really struggled with writing. He had a huge vocabulary which he didn't use in written work as he couldn't spell the words. I had him privately assessed at 9. I think it wasn't picked up at school as he was also very bright so never at the bottom of the class and I also spent a lot of time reading with him when he was small.

Do you often speak to her and she doesn't hear you right away? Does she easily follow spoken instructions at home and school?

Only adding this because I haven't seen it further up, but from what you said about trying dictation, it sounds like she has an auditory processing issue, possibly alongside dyslexia/dyspraxia/adhd.

A good way to test this, is to ask her to read out loud. Then ask her some questions about what she just read. If she struggles it might indicate she has trouble both listening and comprehending content at the same time.

Dyspraxia possibly.

ds great reader but found it physically hard to write, dress, tie laces, ride a bike. His writing is still like a 5 year old and I can’t read it. Now uses word processor. He’s 18.

True in most areas, however AFAIK schools nowadays are expected to have a dyslexia lead, who will test kids in school (someone will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure).

DS2 got tested inschool- they said they were sure he wasn't dyslexic, but it could help identify any other educational needs he might need help with (he's awaiting an autism assessment). Lo and behold- he has hypermobility, which would explain his appalling handwriting/ incredible reading skills combination.

Ds is similar and just been diagnosed as dyspraxic. He was actually assessed for dysgraphia but seems the issue is more global. None of the traditional signs (he can tie his shoes, kick a ball and ride a bike) so it was a surprise!

thirdspacelearning.com/blog/metacognitive-strategies-using-them-at-home/

Have a look at this. It's about meta cognitive thinking.

It's a really good thing to develop in pupils as it helps them look at how they learn and strategies to improve.

You may find it Goves you some ideas to help her

Schools can't do diagnostic tests but will have access to some of a range of screening tests which give an indication of the likely probability of dyslexia.

A specialist assessor, who can diagnose, will have access to a greater variety of tests and subtests - and an ed psych even more - with which to really probe the nuances of what might be going on, and provide a much more detailed picture and individualised recommendations.

The BDA advises that screeners are followed up by a full diagnostic assessment to establish the precise nature of the difficulties and how best to support https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/services/assessments/assessments-vs-screening#:~:text=The%20only%20way%20that%20dyslexia,indication%20of%20possible%20dyslexic%20difficulties However, schools no longer have budgets for this so say it's not necessary.

In my DS's case it very much was, as his screening test results didn't flag him as at risk. False negatives (and false positives) can happen.

Ah, got it, sorry. DS had one of these initial screening tests at school.

My dd is like this also. For her, I am thinking it might be dyspraxia because it is her handwriting that, in her year 3 teachers words, is “really holding her back”.

She struggles to pronounce certain letters and has a unique gait when walking too and avoids shoes with laces. (This also driven by DH who doesn’t know how to tie his own laces and also laced shoes not permitted at her school).

I am not sure how to help her though because in all other ways at school she is meeting expectations.

PurpleBrocadePeacock

Info re Dyspraxia Assessment

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/developmental-coordination-disorder-dyspraxia/diagnosis/

It's also worth asking for an assessment for JHS, joint hypermobility syndrome.

NHS waiting lists can be very long, so if it's affordable, go private.

It maybe! I'm an excellent reader and, after additional support, a reasonable writer but also dyslexic!! Wasn't picked up until late teens which was difficult, as I got labelled thick or lazy because my verbal ability wasn't matching my written work. Dyslexia is much broader than a lot of people realise.

My son (Year 3 ) hates writing when the challenge is imaginative work but is fine with tasks like “Rewrite this recipe in the correct order using imperative verbs”.

He reads a lot and I think that this makes him feel that his own ideas will never be remotely as good as the ones that his favourite authors have. Which is fair enough- I love watching TV drama but would hate it if someone asked me to write a TV script!

I think that my son will just never be a creative writer and I am fine with that as long as he learns how to write clearly for things like reports and functional communications.

How is your daughter at more practical writing tasks?

She sounds so much like my DS. Despite his appalling writing, we were told by all his class teachers and SENDCos he was not dyslexic and although he couldn't read until Year 3 he had a reading age of 16 when he went to secondary school so I believed them .

At secondary he fell through the sets ( started in all tops sets) through the years and eventually, in Year 11, I finally listened to my gut and had him assessed by an Ed Psych and he was diagnosed with dyslexia and slow processing.

This may not be your daughter, but if you can afford it I'd definitely think about getting her assessed. Even if it turns out she doesn't have a learning difficulty at least you will know and they should be able to give advice on her learning style etc to help with her current problems.

I was working with a boy in year 2 this week and asked him for a verbal sentence to include one of his new spelling words. His peers had rattled them off. He got very stuck. So I just asked him to tell me something about gnomes(the word) and he formed a sentence easily. He is possibly on ASD spectrum and processes slowly in other areas too. I agree with playing the ‘what happened next’ game with her verbally to begin with. Take it in turns. Encourage the writing with the caveat that she can edit anything at a later point. Some chn get hung up on starting because they have so many ideas and can’t decide.

This sounds very much like one of my DC. Excellent reader, huge struggles with writing and spelling. It’s dysgraphia in DC’s case, and I would really recommend looking into this.

In our case, I simply couldn’t fit together the fact that the reading is excellent and the writing so poor. It was weird, I knew there had to be something else at play,

DD is autistic ( I'm not saying yours is though) she is fabulous at reading, reading age of 16 at 7 etc, loves language as a tool. As a young child didn't like fiction but loved non-fiction. As a teen loves reading and writing poetry and reading play scripts enjoys analysing a novel, still wont read one for pleasure.

At Primary school she was always pulled up for not writing enough at school particularly as they knew she didn't have a language / reading issue. She struggles massively with using her imagination to do anything, the same applies to other subjects she is technically very skilled in art however, only if she is copying or has a frame of reference. In English struggles to get started and if given an image to write about would just describe the image. She has over the years learnt how to write, she turns it into an algorithm and breaks creative writing into sections she knows it needs to includes and does it piece by piece