Catholic not got a place at RC School and want to know about appeals...

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

My dd who has a nursery place at a RC School has just been turned down for a reception place.I know that a lot of children would be applying.

We live out of the area(Scool in Salford and I am just over border in Bolton) but school is nearest RC one (we are practising Catholics)and is only 1 mile away.

Also I was told by Education office not to put 2nd choice down (another RC school slightly further away) as I would be offered this in the event first one was full.I have not been offered this but a list of those schools left with limited places and the only RC ones are 4 miles away.

I am very upset and worried as its vital that dd is educated in RC school but appeal docs more or less say that if the class size is upto 30 they cannot find me a place.

Anyone any experience of this and is it worth me appealing?

I know I have probably been rejected because of postcode but school admission critera states that if over submission then those nearest to school as crow flies will get place and therefore a postcode should not matter as I could be nearer than others

I think that the advice you were given was outrageously bad. It is always a good idea to put a second choice down. And even if you had been offered the place at the second choice school, you could still have appealed for the first one. As it is, as a result of the duff info, best thing is to get on the waiting list for the first and second choice schools. Find out how much you missed out on the first choice one by - it may be that you are relatively high up the waiting list.

No advice but I would be really annoyed with the education office for telling you not to put down a second choice!

Am still shocked by what you were told. If tis vital for a RC education, was madness for the EO to give you advice to put all your eggs in one basket.

If the RC education is so important, from looking at your post I think the only thing to do is go for the 4miles away one, while staying on waiting list for first choice.

Not sure how different appeals are WRT faith schools, but since it appears that you were rejected as a result of distance rather than failing to meet any other criteria, I would have thought it would be difficult for you to win an appeal. Sometimes schools have incredibly small catchments, and could fill the places many times over within a small area. For example, we were 18th on waiting list (in March 2007) for a 2 form entry school just over 400m away. Have now moved up to about 7th I think, but dd has been at different school since january.

Thing is we cannot travel to other schools as retired dad lives near school and he does school run so we would be forced to send her to non Catholic school and that horrifies me
for v personal reasons

TBH in your position I would still appeal, because it costs nothing but time. Is worth a shot. I think if you start a post asking for people who have been successful at appeal to give you their advice would be a good idea.
You can raise the issue of getting to school, but I'm not sure how much weight it would have. Could your priest make enquiries for you? Contact the school/LEA to find out about waiting lists.
Obviously I don't know why a non-RC school would be horrific, but then I'm a little anti faith schools in general . But it's obviously important to you, and this is why I think you've been poorly advised by the Ed office.

You've got nothing to lose by appealing plus definitely find out where you are on the waiting list and how much mobility there is - in our area being in the top 40 of a waiting list means you have a chance of getting in.

Can your priest appeal on your behalf? He could definitely add weight to an appeal as the faith schools don't just take distance into account.

but all Catholic schools are oversubscribed massively, why do you deserve a place over someone else? That's how it is...

not meaning to be contentious but just because it is very important to you for your DD to have a a catholic education doesn't mean you are going to get it unless you pay for it.

I just found out that two children who did not get a nursery place have been offered a reception place yet they have not moved nearer school. We have moved and our postcode changed but in cases where there are over admissions the school mearsures those nearest as the crow flies and we are still the one mile that we were before the move.

So I think its a bit of a cock up and thats being pointed out in my appeal letter

Because there is a current trend to send your child to a catholic school as they tend to fare better.Most dont even go to church.Our priest told us that he regulary gets asked to baptise 10 year olds who were already christened CofE just so they can get into good RC high school.

Many also have nearer catholic schools to them but dont send as they are not performing as well.I am just asking for my child to get into a local RC school and want an RC one for her pastoral care.

are you sure it is "as the crow flies"
ours is measured via distance to walk to the nearest school gate.

yes i understand that, but in the current system it doesn't rank you any higher. The priest signs the forms and that is that. Just because you want it more, or feel you deserve it more, doesn't make any difference.

I'm not saying it's right, but it is how it is.

Our nearest CofE school take a register now it is so oversubscribed. That way the priest can see who attends and how often. The catholic priests just sign anyone's piece of paper it seems even if they have never ever seen them before. Then it just goes on postcode.

Do you do anything within the parish which could boost your application? Eucharistic minister, reader, catechist?

sorry, the CofE church takes a register at sunday service i mean. Any parents asking for school applications to be signed in the following year have to attend x many services per year.

Our priest will not sign school forms for any parents and children that do not attend church and are not personally known to him,we have a very small rc primary school so although there have been many upsets over the years I suppose its fair.
On the other hand I think he would really fight for a practising child from his parish that was not offered a place,is your parish priest approachable because they can be very helpful, Good luck I would certainly appeal it seems very unfair that a genuine catholic child has not got a place.

Our local churches (RC and CoE) all take registers for attendance at service plus specify that two year's active service in the community (running playgroups, being a reader, helping at school fairs etc) is necessary in order to qualify for a church place.

Proximity is taken into account but is not the main criteria: people who live relatively far away have got in because they are active in the parish.

Have you spoken with your priest re. this? Sounds like he could intercede on your behalf.

I am very shocked that a LA officer advised you to do that - you should definitely follow that up.

Also check if it really is "as crow flies" as usually it is walking distance.

After that, I would talk to your priest to see what he suggests. Not being able to get your child to school (eg because your Dad will take them) is not a valid reason for you to get a place over someone else.

An appeal is always worth it though but be prepared not to win which is unfortunate but realistic

The criteria is "Distance from the school. Priority is given to children who live nearest the school. The distance is measured along a straight line (as the crow flies)
between the child?s permanent place of
residence and the preferred school"

I will also speak to priest tomorrow.

My school also measures by walking distance, if there is a dispute they measure the distance personally.

I would also check the admission criteria for the school,at our school baptised,practising catholic children with a letter from a priest that live 2/3 miles away would get a place before a non practising child that lives next door to the school.[hope that makes sense]

Hi chocolatepeanut and may I first of all offer my sympathy. I am truly astonished that you have been unable to get a place for your dc at the local rc school. Is this your first child? I only ask because I am very surprised that you failed to put a second choice on your form but if this is your first child that is understandable as when it's your first you don't always know the right thing to do.

So I think you have many many things in your favour.

First of all, this person from the LED who advised you - frankly, I'd consider suing her. Or at the very least I would raise hell and tell the LED what advice you were given.

Secondly, I have never ever heard of a catholic child not getting a catholic education in all my 40 years of life. If there are more catholics then places, then the school needs to open more classrooms. After all, their sole purpose for existing is to educate catholic children - not say "sorry we're full".

Next, get the priest on your side.

Finally your dcs journey to school - if the school you have been awarded is 4 miles away then I thought (and I am willing to stand corrected here if anyone knows better than me) that the local education authority had to pay for and provide school transport. So if your father takes dc he should be able to take them by taxi and the LEA will pay for it.

The LEA cannot use the excuse that there are other schools nearer which your dc could attend because these schools are not catholic and you need a catholic school

I honestly can't emphasise how puzzled I am that you haven't been given a place. Do you live in an area with a large catholic community? Lots of Irish, Polish or Italians?

I expect what will happen is that if you send your dc to the allocated catholic school 4 miles away you will (provided you kick up enough fuss and get the priest on your side)soon be allocated a place at the nearest school.

On no account would I send dc to the other non-catholic school as the authorities might take this to mean that a catholic education isn't that important to you after all.

Can you say roughly whereabout you live?

Good luck and keep us informed

Oh sorry I see you've already mentioned your area. I don't know that part of the country myself but would be interested to know if it does have a large catholic community.

A place in the nursery doesn't guarantee a place in reception.
Also there could be a lot of siblings in that year

Good luck though for your appeal.

THe local RC school here has 30 places per year. Last year had, I think, about 24 siblings!
The other RC school, which is not oversubscribed, easily managed to fill all its 60 places.
It isn't possible or easy in most urban areas to just build extra classrooms/employ extra staff.

Sorry you didn't get your choice. We attend the local RC school and only 9 children joining reception in September - how bad is that its a shame you don't live our way!!

Same here, i think we have got 10 this year,