Catholic not got a place at RC School and want to know about appeals...

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

My dd who has a nursery place at a RC School has just been turned down for a reception place.I know that a lot of children would be applying.

We live out of the area(Scool in Salford and I am just over border in Bolton) but school is nearest RC one (we are practising Catholics)and is only 1 mile away.

Also I was told by Education office not to put 2nd choice down (another RC school slightly further away) as I would be offered this in the event first one was full.I have not been offered this but a list of those schools left with limited places and the only RC ones are 4 miles away.

I am very upset and worried as its vital that dd is educated in RC school but appeal docs more or less say that if the class size is upto 30 they cannot find me a place.

Anyone any experience of this and is it worth me appealing?

I know I have probably been rejected because of postcode but school admission critera states that if over submission then those nearest to school as crow flies will get place and therefore a postcode should not matter as I could be nearer than others

[nametaken]

Wow amicissima!!!! that's the best ofsted report I've ever seen - bar none.

No wonder the school has such strict admissions criteria.

I notice that one of the criteria is that your dc must have been baptised with 12 months of being born and I expect this condition to become more and more popular to stop people getting their children christened belatedly or as an afterthought.

[Nemoandthefishes]

mmm not sure about by 12mths old thing as my dd1 wasnt baptised until she was 15mths due to spending a lot of time in hospital and me also getting pg with dd2 when she was 3mths old so we had them done together. Surely would depend on circumstances

Chocolatepeanut exact same has been happening in ds school, he is in nursery and starts in sept luckily he got a place but some 180 children applied for 120 places[yes it is a huge school already] so a lot of children in the nursery didnt get a place. Apparently it is since the LEA has taken over admittance it has nothing to do with the school and is more to do with who gets their forms in first.

[ellingwoman]

If you live outside the parish you are way down the criteria list.

It's possible the school filled all the places with rc children who already have siblings at the school who live in the parish. If not then rc children without siblings who live in the parish are the next to get allocated places. Then rc children with siblings at the school who live outside the parish. Then other rc children who live outside the parish.

If one of those categories causes the school to become over subscribed then the distance criteria applies. But it only applies to that category. The children who have been allocated a place because they fell into one of the higher categories will NOT have to have the distance criteria applied - their places are safe.

If your application fell within the 4th category above and that was the category that caused to school to become oversubscribed then the distance criteria will be applied to your category. Only rc children outside the parish who live nearer to the school than you will be allocated a place before you.

Does this all make sense?

Or have you already worked all this out anyway?

[amidaiwish]

nametaken, i am surprised at your astonishment. I know of at least 10 children who despite being raised in "genuine" Catholic families did not get into a Catholic school this year. Some of these will now go to our local private Catholic school but the others who cannot afford/don't want to do this will go to non denominational schools. It is not an unusual situation.

my mum fought for 3 years before she got my younger sister into a catholic school. This was despite my mum being a Eucharistic Minister and my dad chairman of the church committee. It all comes down to distance from school once all other criteria are met 1) baptised, 2) priest signed form, 3)sibling 4)distance

of course the more you do in the church and the more you are known to the priest, the more likely it is that he will fight for a place for you, but if they have already given out 30 places and no one turns one down, then there is simply no room until someone leaves.

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

amicissima I would actually meet that criteria!

Where I live there are lots of schools withing walking distance but none are Catholic. When I applied for Nursey place last year I was in the schools postcode area (but not parish) and have moved two avenues away taking me into a different postcode but still the same distance from the school. The school is my nearest Catholic school but its not the case for others but they prefer it because its a better one. I wish I had that luxury! I just want a Catholic school thats near to me. When we arranged ds baptism the other week our priest agreed we live in an odd area not supported by Catholic Church and hence we we had adopted his church. I did not mention anything to him today as did not want to compromise him and I suspect his is on board of govereners anyway and its them who I am appealing too.

I have been told I can only appeal on thr ground of the admission policy not being adhered to and as I know two children who were refused Nursery places have now got in and I still live same difference from school, I suspect what the school sec told me "you wont get in without postcode" and I have quoted her is fact and they took one look at my new postcode and assumed I was further away.The admission policy clearly states (also quoted) those nearest as crow flies

So everything is crossed as at moment I think of it and it makes me feel sick

I had no idea about admissions as dd is my first child and have pointed out LEA poor advice in my appeal letter that I am handing in school tomorrow.

[SpeckledHen]

I went thru appeal last year and got in. I have a book I will send you if you CAT me with your address.

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

elling

I am no 8 on list that is baptised living in other parish and know that distance only applies to this and not those in parish with siblings and so on.Believe me when I say I have read the whole policy at least 10 times to be sure

But I also know that many others are in same boat yet some got Nursery places and some did not and yet the same children are in reverse this year,something clearly is wrong.

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

speckle

many thanks how do i cat?

[SpeckledHen]

chocolate peanut have never catted myself but look at the scroll bar at the top of this page and follow instructions where it says 'contact another mumsnetter'

[SpeckledHen]

look at these links:

www.ace-ed.org.uk/

www.schoolappeals.com/

[SpeckledHen]

and

www.schoolappeals.co.uk/

[SpeckledHen]

let us know how you get on. feel free to cat me your address. just looked at how you do this and sadly you have to pay £5 to use cat facility. the offer stands though. it is yours for free. i know how stressful this business can be.

[ellingwoman]

One reason why some nursery children fail to get a reception place is that they got the nursery place on the sibling rule and now the sibling is no longer at the school. Or they were out of parish and there are now more children moved to the area who are IN parish.

Could that be what has happened at your school?

[amazonianwoman]

SpeckledHen - sorry to butt in, but any chance you could tell me what the book is?

My friend is also appealling because her baptised daughter didn't get into the only RC school in her parish - missed out due to distance (a mere 200 metres as the crow flies from our house, and our DD got in)

Her daughter is 3rd on the waiting list and is category A - so near yet so far Although we've heard that at least 1 child has got a place who is catholic, but outside the parish, with siblings at the school.

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

the five children I refer to all live out of parish and are eldest or only child. None have moved except me (but I am still same distance from school)

three got nursery places two did not

and now same three lost reception place and two got it

[ellingwoman]

Sounds odd I agree. In schools where the governing body has responsibility for admissions (as opposed to the LEA) I don't know how strict they are about distances and whether they can be bothered with measuring exactly. You sound like you may have a good case. Good luck!

[nametaken]

Well amidaiwish I can honestly say that I am astonished that there are catholic children in this country that are not being admitted to catholic schools.

Surely the church has a responsibility to educate them. So the school says "no" an people just accept that do they?

If this really is happening it's got to be nipped in the bud and sharpish because it's a problem that's only going to get worse. We must insist that schools increase their accommodation in order to cater for all children. Of course it won't be easy.

Anyway sorry for the hi-jack but just can't believe what i'm hearing here.

[shouldbeworking]

My ds was turned down for a place at a catholic high school. We were given incorrect advice re which school to put down as first choice ( dh and I didn't have a preference between two local catholic high schools as they are both good.) ds's teacher advised us to put out of catchment school because she thought he'd do better there. He didn't get a place at either school. We used this bad advice in our appeal and also proved that the first choice school had incorrectly applied it's admissions criteria. We still didn't get a place at first choice school but using bad advice given to us did get him into other school.

Sadly just wanting your child to attend a particular school is not normally enough of a basis for appealing the decision they have made. You usually need to prove that they have applied their criteria incorrectly. i.e. that they have awarded a place to a child who was in a lower priority criteria catagory than your child iyswim. Having said that it appears you have been given really bad advice by lea so I would definately use this.
Be prepared for a fight though. It took from Feb till early July to get my ds a place at a high school. Huge amounts of letter writing and phone calls.!!
They kept going on about health and safety and overcrowding.

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

I think I have two strong arguments

bad advice from lea

and

evidence that they have not applied admission policy correctly

if I get any RC school close by I will be happy though

thanks for all your advice
x

[1dilemma]

Thought you had to get baptised within 6 months of birth. What I'm wondering is people say get the Priest to speak up for you but I thought all they could do was write a letter confirming that you had attended Church etc etc and after that it was distance (ie what I'm trying to say is it's not a question of how religious you are once you have the requred Baptism/church attendence). Does anyone know if I'm right?

[amidaiwish]

that's how it works round here 1dilemma.

[nametaken]

well round here, the priest and the chair of governors are very friendly and the priest can and does intervene. After all, the priest is one of the members of the board of governors don't forget, and it's them that make the decision.

[MrsMattie]

I don't think they are under any obligation to offer you a place in a RC school. I know that in my area, RC schools are vastly oversubsrcibed and many RC children go to non denominational schools. There simply aren't the places to offer every practising Catholic a place at a Catholic school. Worth an appeal, but you may have to think again...

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

dh dropped letter off at school this morning and was told to take it to church as our priest is the Chairman of the Governors!!

Hoping that makes a difference as at least he does know us.

[SpeckledHen]

amazonianwoman it is 'how to win your school appeal' by ben rooney. first person to cat me with their address can have it.