Associated costs with school trips

[Tudorfan]

I just wondered if there were any teachers or staff who work in schools who have insight into the costs for school trips?

My daughters school are taking them on a trip to the cinema - they have asked for a voluntary contribution from parents for £5.00. They subsequently have changed the conditions of the trip by sending a second message advising that consent for the trip is linked to payment. Meaning the payment cannot be voluntary?

They have advised the school is covering the bulk of the costs of the trip.

They will be walking to the cinema and having packed lunches, so no transport costs. The cinema includes one member of staff free for every 10 students so no staffing cost. The cinema charge £4.50 per student for a cinema showing.

Are there additional costs occurred by a School for insurance for such a trip? I’m slightly confused how they have advised they are covering the ‘bulk’ of the costs.

I assume there will be be insurance and staffing costs. Just because the cinema provides staff I am sure they are not a stand in for teachers with the appropriate PVG/Disclosure checks so I assume the same ratio of any other school trip will apply. The school will also have to pay tickets for the staff joining then.

I am sure this costs more than the 50p extra they get from each student!

1 teacher gets in free for the Cinema screening for every 10 paying students. So 6 members of staff are covered under the price each student is paying, that is what I was referring to as being included opposed to the cinema paying staff to support the trip.

So the only costs I can ascertain are potential insurance costs. As the school have advised they are paying the bulk of the costs it gives the impression they’re paying more than us. Does insurance really cost £5.00 + per head for a 2-3 hour cinema trip? I’m genuinely curious.

They have to say that the payment is voluntary but if not enough people 'volunteer' their £5, the trip won't go ahead. The extra 50p might go towards helping children whose parents genuinely can't afford it (FSM etc), and/or insurance.

They might need extra staff for the trip, or to pay for extra adults.

I went with DDs class on a trip last year... for a class of 25 they had a teacher, 2 TAs and 2 parents.

In Scotland there is no such thing as a voluntary contribution, the law says that school trips are not considered an essential part of education/curriculum so if you want your child to go, you pay.

School will usually cover costs or allow staged payments for any child whose family is genuinely unable to afford it.

We had this with a trip and a workshop to one of the London museums. Free public transport, members of staff and parent volunteers. I assumed the £5 contribution I was asked for was the cost of the workshop.

But I looked the workshop up as I was interested in the content and saw that the actual cost to the school was £2.50 - so half the amount of the contribution being requested. I can only assume that the extra was to cover non-payers/ go into the general pot for school trips.

But why not tell us this? I'm really hacked off about it actually - we can well afford the amount for the school trip and it wasn't a large amount, but I like to know if I am funding other people instead of this shady 'contribution' wording. I would be very happy to subsidise children who's parents genuinely can't afford school trips, but I like to know that's what I am doing!

Actually - for your trip, I do wonder whether the 50p covers the cost of taking electronic payments for the money? Our schools use parentpay and I pay be credit card on that for anything and everything, but I do wonder who is covering the extra costs for that!

This is why I’m curious. I know it’s not a huge cost, but I don’t like feeling misled about things. Especially the shift from voluntary payment - to payment is consent.

For context I’m a single parent, I do work full time so am not entitled to UC. So I just habitually scrutinise all spending.

If they are doing that, they are very much in the wrong.

Schools are not allowed to increase the price to other parents because they expect a shortfall.

In our school, PTA used to cover costs of those who did not pay

Ask for a breakdown of the cost of the trip. If it is during school time the contribution can only be voluntary but a child cannot be prevented from attending if you do not pay, unless the trip is cancelled. If it is a residential, parents can be asked to cover the accommodation/meals/activities outside the normal school day, but any other costs incurred during the school day a voluntary contribution.

Ask to see the charging and remissions policy - it should be on the school website and see if it reflects what they are asking for.

School budgets are so tight that trips will reduce in frequency unless parents pay, but they should not be asked to pay for more than the cost for their child.

OP is being asked to pay £5, she knows the cost of a cinema ticket is £4.50.

Would anyone seriously ask the school to see their charging and remissions policy over this?

I do everything I can to not be THAT parent. Can you imagine the school administrator? ‘Does anyone know where I can find the latest charging and remission policy? Jack Smith’s Mum wants to know what that extra 50p is going to be spanked on, on the cinema trip next week?’

Fucking hell.

Our schools parent pay is something like a 3% surcharge

I "sell" books in there and the cost is from the supplier + 3% but still cheaper than if parents brought from the website and not the school

Also insurance, maybe they need more staff than are paid for due to ratios.

Insurance would be nothing like that much. If they even need extra cover which seems unlikely.

More likely they are taking more staff than are covered by the free tickets. The bit about the bulk.of the cost seems odd - maybe it's a standard wording copy pasted from elsewhere?

School trips always seem expensive but I normally assume it's due to coach hire, which doesn't apply here

Schools have to state it's voluntary to be inclusive to any who genuinely might not be able to afford it (people are usually encouraged to speak to the school if there are any issues, so they're aware of how many they may need to cover). At the end of the day though, if they don't have enough contributions it becomes unfeasible to run. Unfortunately, so many see the word voluntary and think oh great I can get away without paying. These warnings are usually sent out in cases where the majority still haven't paid, despite not many actually raising an issue with the school. Therefore they need to remind people that you either need to pay or speak to them. People can't just expect their child to attend, without payment, having not discussed it with them first. Those who can afford to pay it, should. Otherwise the trip cannot happen.

1 in 10 would be the ratio for KS2 children. However, if any of the children have an EHCP they would need an additional member of staff as the accompanying adult doesn't count in the ratios, so 9 children plus 1 with an EHCP would need 2 adults but would only receive 1 free ticket.
The ratio for KS1 is usually 1:8 and, for EYFS we use 1:6, so additional adult tickets would be needed.

If they aren't following their policy then they are breaking the legislation that all schools have to follow. What's to say they aren't marking up all trips?

Many schools are stopping doing trips as they can’t afford them

Yes if it’s ParentPay they charge 2.5% per transaction so the school have to factor that in to the costings. I am sure other payment systems charge fees as well.

Then as a pp said there may be children with disabilities or medical needs so extra staff could be needed and extra tickets.

School budgets are very tight, they have to plan for every penny. If school trips start eating into the budgets and parents keep complaining about the costs, they’ll just stop doing the trips. Not so nice for the children but less hassle for the school.

Will there also be a booking fee from the cinema?

No, I think it's this bit...

"They have advised the school is covering the bulk of the costs of the trip."

... that requires explanation. As you pointed out, the parental contribution covers the ticket price, plus 50p, so if there are no food or transport costs, what is costing more than £5 per pupil on the trip?

Are they buying them popcorn etc?

"They have advised the school is covering the bulk of the costs of the trip."

is it possible that this is the template letter and this line should have been deleted for this trip?

I agree the bulk thing is probably a bad cut and paste, also they are probably raking more than one member if staff per 10 children and possibly using extra staff to remain in school with those not going. Maybe buying popcorn too as pp said.

Maybe it's easier to collect a fiver rather than £4.50 as they'll have to make change, gather the coins, count the coins etc. Saves parents having to scrounge around for change. And the inevitable 4x20p, 3x10p, 2x 50p, how much is that? Here's a couple of 5p . Etc Whereas with a fiver there's a strong chance most people will send in a note.

And they'll put the extra 50p towards ice cream later in the term or something else?

I doubt the teachers are making money off the parents if that's your concern?

So you need to pay for extra staff (1:10 is not going to be enough to take 60dc on a trip - especially walking there).

There is potentially a small insurance cost
There is potentially a small amount for collecting via an electronic system, or banking fees if parents pay in cash.

It really would be so impractical to ask everyone for £4.82.

However, if children's tickets are £4.50 each, let's assume adult ones could be £9. Six adult tickets at £9 each = £54 would be almost an extra £1 each child to cover that. Potentially more, depending on how many dc they have who need 1:1 support when out on a trip.

But as Knitting said if there were a surplus (unlikely) "They'll put the extra 50p towards ice cream later in the term or something else.
I doubt the teachers are making money off the parents if that's your concern."