Associated costs with school trips

[Tudorfan]

I just wondered if there were any teachers or staff who work in schools who have insight into the costs for school trips?

My daughters school are taking them on a trip to the cinema - they have asked for a voluntary contribution from parents for £5.00. They subsequently have changed the conditions of the trip by sending a second message advising that consent for the trip is linked to payment. Meaning the payment cannot be voluntary?

They have advised the school is covering the bulk of the costs of the trip.

They will be walking to the cinema and having packed lunches, so no transport costs. The cinema includes one member of staff free for every 10 students so no staffing cost. The cinema charge £4.50 per student for a cinema showing.

Are there additional costs occurred by a School for insurance for such a trip? I’m slightly confused how they have advised they are covering the ‘bulk’ of the costs.

Ask for the breakdown.
It will be available to see.

Schools can't make a profit on trips.

If you can't afford it you need to go into school and let them know.
There will be a way to give consent without payment, but you'll need to speak to the, in order to do that.

They can't make the payment compulsory but they can say that the trip won't go ahead if not enough people have paid.

In our school, the PTA subsidises the residential. Not sure people realise but we do.

My cinema charges a booking fee so even if the ticket is advertised as £4.50, it might be £5 with booking fee.

Then the school are paying for insurance, teachers costs etc

For 50p more I wouldn't be complaining. The ticket is £4.50 so the extra 50p is to cover insurance, extra staff (such as TA 1-1 etc.......).

I hadn’t paid yet as they’d advertised it as being voluntary.

This is the issue.
The school haven't "advertised it" as being voluntary. It is a phrase they are compelled to put in.
However, surely even people who struggle with maths realise that the trip is costed so that it can be offered as cheaply as possible to all pupils. If even half a dozen pupils' parents choose not to pay, because they are leaping on the word 'voluntary', then the books don't balance.

@Tudorfan - now people have explained to you why taking a year group of children to the cinema costs more that the individual ticket per child, are you going to pay ?

Oh, and for all the people suggesting the PTA contribute, that's lovely if the PTA has that sort of money in the coiffeurs. There will, however, be a correlation between schools when many families don't have the money for a trip and the schools who don't have PTAs that can raise thousands every year.

If you can’t pay then you email the school and tell them so. If you just ignore them then clearly they aren’t going to understand and will assume that you’ve forgotten to pay. As I do regularly!

Schools cannot use parent’s money to pay for staff or Pupil Premium.

Exactly this. We have been backed into a corner in England with not being able to enforce payments for school trips, OR exclude anyone who doesn't/can't pay. So we have to say 'voluntary contribution'. However, in my letters I always caveat that by saying something along the lines of, 'If we do not receive enough 'voluntary contributions' to cover the cost of the trip, then we may have to cancel for all.'

Unfortunately, schools simply don't have the budget to pay!

As an illustrative example:

Earlier this year, our Year 6 classes had organised a trip to a nearby museum (to support their history unit) at a cost of £10 per child (£6 of that was the coach...when a coach is involved it's a huge chunk of the overall cost).

The museum price was £9 for the day, which included 4 group sessions led by museum staff.

School were already subsidising by £5 per child (which we made clear on the form to parents).

Out of a total of 58 children, only 38 paid the £10, which would have meant school subsidising even more, to a total of £490. We just couldn't, so it was cancelled 🤷‍♀️

Now times this scenario by all the classes in school, and you can see how this would be a HUGE amount of the already in tatters school budget 🤷‍♀️

This may help - think it is the most recent one https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5af99c8ae5274a25e78bbe30/Charging_for_school_activities.pdf. Also don’t forget if the school is sending teachers as accompanying staff - they will potentially be incurring substantial cover costs. Schools cannot charge parents for this.

Stop assuming a school has bad intentions when they are putting on a nice activity for the children?! Why do you need to know where the 50p will go? Worst case scenario, they have money left over and reimburse you or spend it to cover the ridiculous funding gaps created by successive Conservative governments.
On my school trips I budget for the supply staff left behind and for a taxi in case a child needs to go to hospital with a staff member, and use any couple of quid spare for shoes, uniform and stationary for the pupils in my class whose parents can't afford them or are too strung out on drugs/drink to bother to buy them these essentials.
You have NO idea, just, maybe, trust the school? FFS

I’d just be happy someone else was organising the trip. Worth 50p in my view.

Schools do have to have a charges and remissions policy and it should be on their web site.

The situation is as @twentysevendresses says. Not enough money coming in compromises the trip. There is no limit on the voluntary contribution set and it absolutely can be used to subsidise others. There must be equal opportunity but not equal payment. Schools do put a limit on what they can charge and most will not fleece parents to cover those not paying. There’s a balance. If too many will not pay and it means the school will have to subsidise too much, they can cancel.

For the sake of 50p it’s not worth asking about, but for a residential, it’s reasonable to understand how the contribution is calculated but schools never want to say it’s higher because (5) parents never pay up and you cannot leave them behind. All
you can say is that if costs aren’t covered, you cancel.

School staffing ratio on trips is at least 1:13 (more likely 1:10) so instead of one person looking after 30 there will be three. This is where the extra cost lies. It’s usually half of the extra staffing costs divided by the number of children going.

You as parents can’t pay for the kids who can’t afford to go. That comes out of the pupil premium budget of the school.

Someone will also have spent at least a couple of unpaid hours doing risk assessment/pre visit.

But by all means go ahead and complain about the extra 50p. Then there won’t be a trip next year. Poor teacher.

I'm a teacher. I don't think the op is being unreasonable. I'm extremely conscious about asking for money for trips and would hate to think that parents think school of making profits from their contributions. It might only be 50p in this case but what about the next one?

It’s 50p per transaction on ParentMail. They shouldn’t be charging you for insurance. They won’t have had to take out insurance just for this trip. Schools are not allowed to make a profit from trip charges. Sound like they won’t make a profit, but the bulk bit doesn’t make sense.

Thank you, everyone seems to have become fixated on the 50p difference. If people read my original post I asked out of genuine curiosity what the bulk of the rest of the costs were likely to be.

Unfortunately instead of just answering the question or leaving it if not in a position to do so, people attack.

Someone has even mentioned parents spending money on drink/drugs? For context, I work full time so am not able to claim any support. I don’t drink/smoke/do drugs, have false nails/get my eyelashes done or whatever other stereotypes people wish to throw in. I’ve bought myself one pair of boots this year (from Vinted) because my previous pair which were 9 years old broke. Nearly every penny of my money goes for my child.

I was confused by the phrasing used saying school is covering the bulk of the costs - which implies a greater contribution than that the parent is being asked to make. When I couldn’t identify any other costs associated with the trip, so just simply wanted to learn more about trip funding.

Have you asked the school @Tudorfan

It will be to cover the admin costs and the payment system. Either pay or dont send your kid. You're investing too much time into this

I think the schools paying the bulk will be for teachers/ta's/1:1 carers plus with parents struggling to make ends meet there's going to be parents who can't afford it. That 50p the school is probably putting in a lot more for the others.

My son school plans things, the other week we had a petting zoo visit out of 60+ kids taking part only 20% paid the £2 voluntary contribution I'm sure it cost the school a lot more that it cost me most my son's class said they couldn't afford it or didn't pay because it was voluntary

@Fluffyowl00 That is not correct. Government guidelines do permit extra sums to be raised to cover where parents cannot pay. Such voluntary contributions that can be used to pay for these dc. There’s no obligation for a school to take PP money and of course, many dc don’t get this anyway. If the voluntary contributions should cover all costs and that includes those of the non payers as their dc cannot be refused a place. It’s a constant juggling act for schools.

Our local school has a policy of 1:8 for KS 2 school trips. The guidance is a maximum number of children per adult, but different schools can set their own if they wish, as long as it isn't more children to each adult.

Schools have to look at the risks of a trip and age of pupils. Sometimes number of sen pupils too. There are minimum pupil/ adult ratios recommended but for some visits these should be increased. My LA had a big review of staffing when a school trip had four dc die on it. Primary DC drowned in the sea in Cornwall. So more hazardous trips need a higher pupil/adult ratio and risks must be evaluated. There are dangers for dc when walking in coach parks, at the seaside re tides, on cliffs and various other locations where more supervision is needed. A ratio not recognising activities is absolutely wrong,

Most schools would have to cancel at 20% paying. The school budget will be paying for the others. £2 is 50% of a cup of coffee in many places. More a case of won’t pay. The school has to make it clear trips will not run if contributions received do not meet costs. Sad for those who pay happily.

Things have got so bad haven’t they
a cinema trip is lovely for them and it’s all being made into a negative situation … no wonder schools don’t bother and I do feel for parents that cannot afford the few Pound

I paid 80 for our two to go to a theme park .. everyone pod and no one asked questions and we don’t live in a wealthy area

I completely agree! Pay it or don’t, but school staff have so many more important things to get on with than dealing with queries over 50p. Question them over stuff that really matters, by all means, but not a £5 cinema trip.