School say that parent *has* to attend school trip or child can't go

[Sunnymoonshine]

I have a young child who can get upset easily and sometimes needs time out to re-regulate. She's been on school trips and has been OK, but the teacher has been concerned in case she gets upset and is a distraction for the staff. For the last trip, the teacher asked me two days before if I could attend. I couldn't get that time off, so they found an extra school staff member to attend instead (and all was fine). There is another trip coming up and the teacher has told me at drop off that if I don't attend then my child won't be allowed to attend the school trip. I understand that it is difficult to look after so many children, but it's also difficult for me to take time off my job (and I feel like with all the day-time meetings and events and lack of wrap around care, this particular school really doesn't think that most mums work).

The school obviously doesn't think that it should have to provide extra support for the school trip from its own staff. I was wondering if anyone had heard about any similar policies where a school has told a parent that they have to attend a school trip or their child can't attend?

Does your dc have any additional needs/ehcp or are they just a little more emotional than most?

I say this as if they do have additional needs the school should absolutely be supporting them to go on the trip, whether or not an echp is in place. Refusing them to go on the trip is discrimination and you should absolutely raise this with the head and governors urgently.

Shocking treatment by the school. If they need more parent helpers to keep ratios up then the non-working parents need to step up and volunteer, enabling the teachers and paid staff to take care of those with additional needs. Not up to parents to be told 'youve got to come or your kid's not going'.

Does your child have SEND issues or an EHCP? Does it have to be you who goes or any adult that could assist her?

I think the school only have to supply a additional member of staff if child has sen. My DS always had at least 1 additional member if staff when he went on trips, often 2 members if places like rivers. I did attend some trips but not all. My DS has sen and was already diagnosed. Their were children in the class that didn't always get to go if they had behaviour issues that weren't diagnosed or recognised. It's hard to say what's fair as every child deserves to go on trips but the schools shouldn't have to cover expenses for additional staff if a child doesn't have sen. On the other hand if school aren't accepting or providing additional support can they refuse if its emotional. Not like she's running off or being a danger. Would you be happy to send her knowing she might not cope.

I think the teacher has handled it clumsily but ultimately if the school have no extra staff then the trip either won't go ahead if parent volunteers don't step up, or one child misses out so it can still go ahead.
Have they asked for other parent volunteers and would your chuld be happy with a stranger?
How old is your child?
how much notice have you been given?

I can see both perspectives to be honest, do you want the whole trip cancelled just because of your child? I'm a teacher and have cancelled trips before due to lack of parent volunteers, but never singled parents out, so I agree it's not been handled in the best way poss.

I've phoned around the parents of a class of 30 to get volunteers before, using ppls grandparents and my own relatives to ensure a trip happens, but as a teacher it's time consuming and pretty irritating to be honest, wasting an hour or 2 that could be better spent. It's up to the teacher if they're willing to do that out of their unpaid time.

Op absolutely no way is the school wanting to exclude your child from the trip. It’s all well and good pp’s saying that they have to provide another member of staff, but they clearly don’t have another member of staff to accompany them, they can’t magic someone out of thin air. Would you want your dd to go on the trip when the teachers are telling you she’s unsafe and they’re limited in what they can do to safeguard her?

This!
I fear school trips will be something we tell our grandchildren about but they never get to experience. Support staff in school generally work 1:1 with a particular child and can not just be pulled to go on a trip. Very few schools now have general or class TAs.

I was thinking that when pp’s are saying the school needs to arrange more volunteers if they haven’t got the staff. If there’s children with behavioural issues etc then surely they can’t just ask random parents to supervise, it’ll have to be someone trained or their own parent?

If the school had someone to cover it, they wouldn't be asking you. Even children with severe needs rarely have 1:1 so I'd imagine your child doesn't.
The fact is, some children behave in such a way, for many reasons, that it is not safe to take them out without 1:1.

My child has additional needs.

the school told me they could not support her safely for a school trip. It’s not discriminatory if it’s true. Life is a bitch sometimes

If the only additional needs here are that your child gets a bit emotional however I would not be bending to that

Get it in writing. (Eg Email the teacher) this is evidence that your child needs 1:1 support on trips and it should be provided by the school.

As I understand it, they haven't checked if they have someone available from the school for this trip because they provided someone last time.

I think that it would be fine if they had asked for parent volunteers from across the class. But they never do this, they have just asked me because I am the parent of the child they are flagging. My child is 6. Of course I wouldn't want the whole trip cancelled, but the school clearly wouldn't consider this either, hence why they've said that if I don't go then she would have to go to school and spend the day in a different classroom.

I used to volunteer in a primary school. I am DBS checked and have some relevant qualifications. I was asked to come in on another day so that a school trip for year 1s could take place. I believe (it was some time ago) that there were a couple of children with medical conditions, I think one was diabetic which meant they needed a 1:1 teacher and that teacher doesn't count in the ratios.

You can't just pull a teacher from another class. Who will teach that class? Again, same with an LSA/TA if they do a school trip their pay works out as less than minimum wage because they are working over their lunch break which is unpaid and usually on the trip for longer than a school day.

School are trying to help your child attend the trip and the best person to comfort a child would be a parent. I understand it from your point of view but you also have to understand it from their point of view. Normally I would not go as low as year 1, year 2 is my limit but I prefer being in KS2. I did it as a favour.

I had this when my son was in reception year, he hadn't got his EHCP then or autism diagnosis. School said I had to be at the trip venue in case he got upset but that I shouldn't let him see me unless they brought him over to me! In the end I wasn't needed but they let him come home with me instead of back on the bus.

Call their bluff.
You can’t help, so they either take her or they find someone to supervise her at school. Their problem, not yours.

It sounds like a shit school though, what are they doing to support overcoming the issue?

Given cost of living pressure they may well be short on parents volunteers. I used to volunteer at a local school as a reader, however when energy bills skyrocketed a couple of years ago I promptly got myself an extra job at the local university. Less people volunteer now and to be honest managing a pupil with additional needs for a day for free may not be everyone's cup of tea and can't really be 'expected' of a volunteer.

They probably don't want to be left in the lurch like last time and can't magic up people from thin air. So this time with forward planning the options are you come or the child cant because they haven't the staff nor funding to cover your child on a 1:1 basis. Can their father or anakther family member not go if you don't want to take time off work so your child can go.

Supervising at school simply entails her going into a class room which is fine and doesn't need the same attention as the group of children require on a trip.

If the risk assessment says she needs 1 to 1 attention and they can't afford it either in terms of freeing up a staff member or financially bringing in supply then they have put forward a viable option whereby the child can attend - and that is by a parent attending.

@BloodyAdultDC
then the non-working parents need to step up and volunteer
Please bear in mind that 'non-working parents' are quite often working their arses off because they have 2 toddlers at home and their partner works very long hours, they have caring responsibilities, they're trying to do a house up on the cheap so are doing loads of the work themselves, are already volunteering elsewhere...

The attitude that 'non-working parents' are there to prop things up isn't one I am fond of, BTW, esp having done a fuck-ton of school volunteering over the years.

Sorry OP, derail.

Edited to apologise for derail.

Yes I’m well aware of that, but they are trying to avoid responsibility. It’s their problem to resolve, they are just hoping the parent makes it easy for them. She shouldn’t.

Holding firm is usually the only way to make progress, otherwise they will happily let the parent solve it for them.

They don't have a ehcp, but we may need to go down this route. TBH I've been hesitant to put a label on her, but it might be that we need to. She's quite calm at home, but it's clear that school in particular can stress her out and upset her.

The only way to resolve the problem might well be sating that the child can't go.

School staffing is down to the bone. Surely everyone realises that these days? It's all over Mumsnet, it's all over the media. It's farcical to think that the school can regularly find a spare staff member to go on a school trip. It's usually a nightmare finding 'just enough' adults for a trip to go ahead.

Why would you 'hesitate' to get the help your child may need??

Does she have possible sen as its probably unusual for a 6yo to in school opinion need a parent on a trip

In y6 my dd teacher decided she may not be able to go on residential or could go but only each day. This was march, after id paid months earlier.
This was sprung on parents eve. It was pretty upsetting.

Anyway teacher then went off sick for months and school never mentioned it so dd went on the trip and was fine. Dd was being assessed for asd. However she was nowhere near the most tricky in the year.
However supervision by the staff was pretty low and the kids were wandering aroubd the site in groups by themselves.
So yes schools will try to exclude sen kids. Sometimes it is just that one teacher.

Though in your case it seems both year teachers felt the same.

in dd case school never raised sen though actually its pretty obvious though mild.
I think no one wants the paperwork. Afaik school only raised issues with out 1/6 of the sen kids i know.