Quiet child struggling sitting beside boisterous children

[Mumof3onetwothree]

My daughter is very quiet, gentle and well behaved in class. She's in a large class with a group of 4 or 5 very extrovert and sporty boys . The boys know each other very well from lots of playdates and are quite disruptive. She is almost always put sitting next to at least one of the boys from this friend group. I have several times over the years asked for her to be moved when the teasing got very bad. She became very withdrawn and anxious in the first term of this year and after we were quite emphatic after Christmas she was moved next to two calm friendly boys (seating plan is always boy girl boy) and she was like a different child. Happy, content every day and all the anxiety gone. She has been in the school 4 years and I've never seen her so happy. The tables have just been rearranged and she is back in between two of the disruptive boys. Immediately she is back to her old self of being withdrawn, nervous, said she cried quietly in the yard etc.
My heart sank, I felt so panicky. I thought the teacher had finally understood as she'd been left with the nice boys for so long. I am so overwhelmed and don't know what to do. I think it's so so unfair to use a quiet child to solve a behaviour problem in another child. I have had the same discussion with each teacher she's had over the years. The teachers convey that they find me annoying and inconvenient and that she needs to learn to be around all personalities (but she is almost never seated beside well behaved children). I'm so non confrontational myself that it is a huge thing for me to speak to a teacher and I hate that they are so unreceptive of me. I'm feeling at the stage the only solution is to leave and find a school with smaller class size where there may be less behaviour issues. She has good friends in the class though which is the only reason I hesitate to move her.

That's so sad to read. Your poor daughter. I know it's really difficult but can you ask to speak to the teacher again and request that she is moved seats again? Surely any teacher would want to hear if something they had done was affecting one of their students so badly.

If you get somewhere and they move her back then could you ask that the information be passed on to the next teacher so that this doesn't happen again?

Good luck!

Don't move schools and don't fret about the teachers attitude. Just keep advocating for your DD. She can't learn with the disruption (and she's not there to moderate the boys behaviour). Just keep contacting the teacher every time - be polite but don't get fobbed off.

Being a nuisance parent is the only way you get heard in schools. If you’re a polite reasonable person it’s shit, but they’re against it every day and they’re in survival mode. Your lovely quiet kid will continue to get overlooked and not prioritised unless you advocate and become a broken record. Good luck!

Aww I'm sorry your daughter is going through this. I do understand your frustration though because my LG (she's 6 and in year 1) has also been seated next to the 'naughty' boy in class, he is in year 2 and she is totally intimidated by him. They have put him next to her because she's quiet and gets on with work, listens etc and she is also having to partner up with him in activities which she hates. It really pisses me off that just because she is well behaved she is now being punished for it by being paired up with someone who makes her feel anxious and 'talks to her when she isn't allowed to be talking'.
You've done the right thing in standing your ground and if I were you I would just keep on at the teacher. Don't move her if she has good friends at the school and is otherwise happy there.

Thanks for both your replies....I've spoken to teachers so many times about this. I always feel they think it's an inconvenience that I'm complaining. Her current teacher said at one point she thought she was suffering from anxiety and needed help and yet it was completely cured by the good seating arrangement...she sat her with children that she gets along very well with....so she knows her and what helps her already. But yet now has put her between 2 of the most disruptive children in the class again. I assume because it is more convenient for her in terms of classroom control.
That's why I feel despairing at this stage.
It's awful and scary to see her mood change so quickly after months of being carefree.

I hate the way lazy teachers do this. It is cruel. Keep complaining, write everything down. They put the well behaved children next to the disruptive ones hoping that the good behaviour will rub off. It never does, the poor child who is well behaved just gets more and more distressed.
Put all your concerns in writing, copied to the HT. If no response, copy to the governors
One of my DC used to come home with awful bruised legs due to being kicked constantly in this exact situation. Pencils and crayons were taken and broken, work sheets snatched and torn up. The naughty ones were never reprimanded.

There's lots online about teachers using the well behaved girls to calm badly behaved boys.

It's misogyny that begins in primary school; sacrifice the girls education to improve the boys.

You're right to call it out and I'm too tired to Google it now, but I'm sure if you do, you'll come up with some good examples of why this is bad for classroom management to discuss with the teacher.

Good point @JungleJimmy

What are the behaviours from.the boys that she is struggling with specifically? That's really key on how to deal with this.

It's tricky because is if it's 4-5 boys in the class, even in a large infants class, that's 1/3 of the boys that you don't want her sitting next to and whilst I don't disagree that there are issues with well behaved girls being deliberately sat next to poorly behaved boys, that in reality is too many kids for her to be always allowed to avoid because if they really are that problematic then it's not fair on the other kids to always be next to them either.

The teasing isn't ok so yes I would speak to the teacher to deal with that if/when it occurs.

I'm assuming from your post that she is at least 8? Learning to ignore annoying people and just get on with what you are doing is a really useful skill as is learning to get along with people that aren't your cup of tea. Obviously that depends on just how disruptive the boys are. Have other parents identified it as an unusually challenging class?

It's really difficult as a parent to see your child so unhappy at school.

Yes 15 boys. She's rarely next to a lot of the other boys though. Why is she placed in the middle of two of the disruptive ones? Why not put one quieter child on the other side of her so they aren't trying to talk across her all the time... Yes several parents who are teachers themselves regard it as a difficult class and the group of boys as challenging and unkind. It is an unfair distribution usually as the louder girls who complain vocally don't have to be beside them because it's too much trouble for the teacher. She's quiet and not going to suddenly turn into one of those loud girls....I've tried telling her to complain and tell on them and she won't. Yes 4 years and she still hasn't learned the skills of how to deal with them. She just becomes anxious and withdrawn and even more quiet.
The main issue is constant talking, messing and there has been bad and unrelenting teasing in the past. The class is always noisy.

I've heard the boys mothers talking about phone calls they've had from the teacher about their children's disruptive behaviour and they were just laughing and brushing it off. There never seems to be any effective consequence.

When I was a child there were 30 children in the classroom and never any talking. And the girls almost always could sit beside girls.

Tell the teacher that your DD now identifies as a boy and therefore in order to support her gender identity your child can no longer be sat in between 2 boys.

I'm only half-joking.

But unfortunately you are going to have to escalate this up to the HT and the governors. Go to your GP about your child's 'anxiety' so that it can be recorded that sitting next to the two most disruptive children in the class is having on your DD mental health.

Keep fighting. It's misogyny that your child is being using as a shield against those two children and the teacher needs to be trained on how to use more effective classroom management and not to discriminate against female pupils.

Squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that. Keep piping up. Yes children have to learn how to get on with all sorts but that can be through extra curriculars and play dates etc, at school she is there to learn and it’s affecting her mental health.

I agree to escalate it to the head teacher and also to get a GP assessment. Your daughter is learning how to deal with them simply by being in a class with them every day - and before the seating change, she was happy despite the disruptions (not all kids would be). Moving a child to a different seat should not be that big of a deal, particularly when it's so obviously taking a mental toll on her. Also those boys should be spread out more, more than one person between them!

IMO the two boys should be sat at single desks at the front of the classroom, with a wide space between them. They should not be allowed to disrupt the lesson.

Do not come to your gp about ‘anxiety’ at school that can and should be sorted at school.

your child doesn’t not have a medical condition - they have a shit school.

gp will not get involved. ‘Mum reports school seating plan causing X to be anxious re school, not present anywhere else, advised speak to school’ that’s what gets documented.

unfortunately every time you’re child goes to an appointment their ‘previous anxiety’ will appear in their notes, they’re future schools will use it etc….
Don’t give your child a label for a perfectly normal reaction to a shit situations, as let’s be honest anxiousness in undesired situations is a normal response and not a medical condition.

I have a dd like this. It's infuriating that well behaved girls are treated this way. I don't think moving school if she has friends is good for a quiet sensitive child, i hate to say it but most/lots schools are like this these days. You said the louder girls are not used as buffers in this way so clearly this seating plan is what's easiest for the teacher. You need to start complaining and escalate to the head. Complain every single day if she's saying they disrupted her learning every day. Make it so it's easier for the teacher to change the seating. I hazard a guess that the girls who were sat between until they moved your dd back had complaining parents hence the reshuffle.

I agree with all you've said here. The last three months have been the only time in 4 years that she hasn't been beside a disruptive pupil and she's blossomed. Her anxiety is due to circumstance. I'll get no where with the principal. I've been down that road before.

To me the choice is try to get into a school with smaller class size where hopefully behaviour problems won't be such an issue - but possibly not be able to break into pre formed friendship groups vs stay with the little friends she's had for as long as she can remember but suffer on.

Nope. Just send another e-mail, asking for her to be moved again. And stress that you hope that this is not repeated.

I had this with ds2, he is a very confident self-assured child, and he was used by teachers to calm others down, appease difficult children. I nipped that in the bud quickly. I actually said to the male teacher that I wasn't prepared to have him 'used' !!

All this GP anxiety and moving schools suggestions is overly dramatic. Stand up and parent properly for your dd, send an e-mail, so that it is in writing and there is a paper trail, rather than having endless unprovable 'chatette's' with teacher. Formalise it, polite but firm. Then when you drop her off the next day, don't leave until teacher has confirmed that she's already been moved. Simples.

Your DD sounds very much like me at primary. I was the 'good, quiet one' and so was seated next to the more problematic children. Presumably the teachers thought I would calm them down/be a good influence. In reality it had no effect on them and made me miserable as well as leading to some low level bullying.

Keep standing up for your DD!

If it's an extremely disruptive class - and one form entry and school just isn't listening I wouldn't rule out moving schools if possible - especially if these seem to be school policy and not an individual teacher.

Eldest had this - teacher wouldn't listen point back refuse to move them- my child started having melt downs at home then going into school- undergoing now ASD assessment - made whole families life hell got worse and worse till she had melt down in school.

I was advocating very hard for my child - daily- writing and seeing head formal polite and refusing let them blame other things - but got nowhere till she had a very public melt down in school and suddenly she was moved - them phoned and seemed shocked this well behaved quiet child was just lost it and nothing was calming her down by time -teacher was off with me rest of the year and that child was on high alert with worrying anxiety based behaviors even dismissive family member started to be concerned about - few day into next year with new teacher those stopped as well.

Few year later we had to move for work so new school- worried sick all our kids would struggle to my utter surprise and relief none of them did - existing friendship groups didn't prove a barrier.

'Please move my child, I do not give permission for my child to be used as a behaviour control tool. She deserves a calm environment where she can learn to her potential. This is not being achieved currently as she is being disturbed/teased etc throughout each lesson and this is causing her anxiety, tears and the beginnings of school refusal. This is an easy fix but yet keeps happening. Please advise'

The thing is, even if she is suffering from anxiety, it doesn't mean she should have to sit next to pupils who make her anxiety worse.
You need to speak to her class teacher every year, they probably won't remember to tell the next teacher which child can sit next to which other child. A decent school will take notice though, particularly if you use words like "intimidated" and "unrelenting teasing " .
These boys sound more than just disruptive tbh, unrelenting teasing= bullying.
Complain in writing, to the teacher and cc the Head or Phase Leader, saying that her learning is being affected by the seating arrangements, that you have asked previously for her not to be seated next to these 2 boys because of the bullying and disruption, and that she needs to be moved. Let it be known that if they can't/won't comply, you will start looking for another school. They won't want to lose the funding she brings with her or the uplift to their SATs results if she stays.

I would question why two of the more boisterous children are on the same table. Surely if they were separated your daughter could be between one of those boys and a more sensible one.
I’d see the teachers point if you were asking her to be sat with friends as you want the children to occasionally sit with those they aren’t as close to and teach them to work together but that doesn’t seem to be what you’re doing.