After school 'learning' - how do you 'get' kids to do it? Suggestions for the unwilling!

[Curlewwoohoo]

Hesitating on what to put as the subject. I didn't want to put homework as that's not fully accurate.

My Dd 9yo is in year 4. She has just been diagnosed as dyslexic. She is not 'behind' at reading somehow (good comprehension) but spelling and maths she's falling behind a bit now.

At home, she is really not up for doing anything resembling school work. These are the asks from school, with my comments -

*25 minutes times tables per week, on an app - she does the time if school ask, but gets lots wrong.
*I think she needs to do some extra timetables practice focusing on one at a time until she can remember them. We try to make it fun, songs on YouTube, playing games, etc
*Reading, school ask minimum x3 per week.
*Dyslexia app (nessy reading and spelling) - advised x3 per week.

My issue is getting her to do anything! She will scream shout cry and point blank refuse, for easily 30 minutes, and at its worst 3hrs. Then she's in no mood to learn.

I've tried bribery of course. Pocket money. Charts. Making it a cosy time. And threats. I won't take her to gymnastics. Etc. Pleading. Explaining. Laying off. She explains she just doesn't want to do things at home.

I don't know which way to go here. On the one hand I sympathise with her. She's worked hard at school. Keeping up requires her extra bandwidth. On the other hand, everything I read about dyslexia says overlearning and repetition are key. I want to help her with the basics before she gets to secondary school.

Going on the current situation, when she gets to secondary there is no way she'll listen to me about school work. If I push her now does that teach her good skills or put her off for life?!

Help!

My daughter hated doing school work at home and we gave up the fight and stopped doing it
(she is autistic so circumstances are slightly different). To her school was school, home was home.
Would your daughter do the work if it was an after-school club/tutor thing - like Kumon or something?

First thing you do is find out more about her and her learning needs. It's not unusual for children with dyslexia to struggle with working memory and processing speed too.
It's common for children with poor working memory to struggle with holding information and then manipulating it in their head. It's why both mental arithmetic like timetables are so hard as well as learning phonics and using them.
Just learning timetables by rote isn't massively useful if you just know the 'song' and not what to do with it to apply it.

As for getting her to do more work at home, pick your time wisely and do it by stealth. No workbooks etc but bringing it in to the every day.

Not wanting to do school work at home is also very common because school is for school. Take her to another 'work' place like the local library instead.

Make reading enjoyable, all distractions off, make you both a hot drink with some biscuits and you read to her whilst she drinks/eats then she does you a favour and finishes the chapter whilst you have yours. Being reading to is almost as beneficial as doing it herself. You can buy books specifically formatted for dyslexics too Whenever the TV is on the subtitles should be on too

Don't take gymnastics away from her, it's incredibly important that children that struggle at school have something they are good at outside of it otherwise their self-esteem plummets.

Stop pleading and bribing her it's making it far too much of a 'thing'.

Overlearning isn't just about doing more it's about cementing what they've actually done and applying it. Pre learning is also useful. The truth of the matter might be that she struggles with academic subjects but you can take the focus off them and encourage a love of learning by deep diving into topics she's learning about with museum visits and relevant documentaries and giving context and application to them.

DTs are also dyselxic. From y5 to end of y6 they went to a tutor for 90 minutes on a Saturday. Removed the battle from us. Reading has been non negotiable every night and still is, but we sacked off the school books for something they were interested as I would rather they read anything than having a screaming match over a book they had no interest in reading.

Does she use TT Rockstars, it was really popular with all the kids in DTs class.

It's a battle, and one that we are losing now at y8. Dreading y9 tbh when it really will ramp up.

Yes it's times table rock stars

How about a little chart, a three by three square, row one, three times table boxes, row two, three reading boxes, row three, three dyslexia app boxes. Start on a Sunday, she gets to choose which one she does when.

Plan something lovely on the following saturday, trip to ice cream parlour, or to swimming pool, or something she loves. She only gets to go if all 9 boxes have been ticked off. If not, she completes them on Saturday afternoon instead.

Then start again on Sunday, with another treat planned for Saturday.

No pleading, arguing, or emotion involved, just tell her she does them - she gets the treat, she doesn't do them, she doesn't get the treat.

Of course, lots of praise and encouragement if she does one or two boxes a day.

That's exactly what I've set up this week @dirtyblond, started on Sunday. Gave her the control of when. But said pocket money. She's not done any yet...

Perhaps a cafe trip would be better incentive. If she's done the homework then we can just eat cake. If not then we finish it off at the cafe.

My 6yo is all over it like a rash... Which is going to be an issue for their relationship in future years I expect.

I second the tutor if you can afford it. They will teach tricks to break down times tables so you only need to learn a few of them to work out the rest.

This amount of out of school school-work would be way too much for my dyslexic ds. He's exactly the same with homework and extra stuff. I would pick one thing and focus on that - for me today would be Nessy from what you've listed. Then reading can be along with an audiobook, even if you record the school book and she reads with the recording, or where you read a sentence and she reads a sentence.

Have you tried coloured filters for reading?

Re 6yo, it's important to reward effort not success especially when SpLD involved.

I would talk to her teacher beforehand to explain what is happening at home and then set a meeting up with the teacher and your DD for the teacher to explain that this is home work, ie work set by school to be completed at home. I would also be asking for guidance on how to help her because of her dyslexia.

If you can afford a tutor I would look into that because children are usually worse for their parents as showcased in lockdown.

Re times tables explain to her that it isn't a case of her working it out each time it is just knowing what comes next like the words to a song, she knows the order of the words it is the same for times tables. So seven sevens are forty nine. The maths thing is really important to lay the foundation in primary because they build on that all the way through and struggle later on in secondary. In simple terms I used to tell children in class, the more you know your times tables, the quicker you can answer a question and the more questions you answer correctly the higher the score you get on the test. If they are sitting there still counting on their fingers it takes more time.

Would they work as a team to motivate each other rather than pit themselves against each other? So they take turns with questions and they score points collectively toward a goal. Each child gets their times table question aimed at their level so not the 6 year old answering the 9 year old's questions.

Good luck. I hope you find something that works. In the long term, she will do better for having a parent prepared to be involved and put the effort in.

I would stop doing it at all for a while. I do feel strongly that dyslexic children shouldn't be made to do so much work at home to the detriment of family life. She will be so tired after being in school all day and once worked up into fever pitch won't learn anything anyway.

I do have my SpLD qualification and was a primary school teacher, so not entirely speaking out of my arse 😁

What I would do is leave it for a bit and then get creative. Have times table cards all about the room and give her one minute to collect them all up and then put them in order together. Put a smartie on each one and when she has read it out let her eat it. Keep goals small and do them with her . Lots of repetition of two facts will help them go in faster than doing ten facts. Pay her a penny for each word she reads. Doing two sentences without stress is better than doing more with lots of stress. And remember TEACH not TEST. My turn/your turn rather than catching her out (as it were).

This way of doing things is a lot of effort but anything is better than all the stress you are going through at the moment.

Does she have an individual education plan in place?

In your shoes, I'd tape the shenanigans at home and ask for a meeting with the teacher. Show the recording. Ask if the expectation of the academic standard is reasonable given her diagnosis, and ask what support the school has put in place to facilitate her academic progress, within a context of fostering low stress for her.

Emphasise:
You want your child to make progress toward reasonable academic expectations.
You want to preserve and maintain a strong parental relationship with her.
You are not a trained teacher.
You are not a trained SEN teacher or aide.
What can they do in school to facilitate academic progress?

Yy mathanxiety I do agree. She is in school ALL DAY and should be doing enough there. The school should have realistic expectations.

Thanks @HumphreyCobblers and @mathanxiety

I really try with making games instead of book learning. Times table tiddlywinks. Car races. All sorts. I find things on Instagram. But I can't keep up. I also work and the juggle is just relentless and half the time she refuses to do them. Horrible lock down flashbacks...

She does have a myplan but it's not up to date as diagnosis report only came through this week, so I need to speak to school next. School have her in a spelling group for extra practice but I don't have confidence their methods will work for dyslexia. They did say they'd do nessy x3 per week but they seem to regularly stop doing it until I ask again.

I now wonder if a homework club or tutor would be a good idea, to preserve our relationship.

Could you try finding a solution together? You sit down and say “look, school have asked you do this. I really think it’s important and will hopefully help you with your learning. What do you think we should do?”

then write down every idea you both come up with. Nothing is wrong - even if she says “don’t do it”, write it down without judgement. Then, when you have a list, go through each idea and work out whether that could be a solution or not (even for “don’t do it” you could say you’d feel you’d be letting her down if you allowed that and it wouldn’t meet the schools expectations etc)

however, if you’re still really struggling and she’s pushing against it continually, I personally wouldnt force it. Speak to school and see what you could reduce it to as a minimum, if poss.

OP given you update I would absolutely stop it for a while and recharge. I would tell the school that it is not possible to do this at home with her. In a few weeks then think about going to a tutor but don't rush anything. Think you both need a break and once things are on a more even keel then you will find a way that works.

I myself have a child who refuses any work with me at home and I won't push it. Other people's children are way easier to teach.

I would honestly stop before you damage your relationship and make her even more negative about school work. If she's dyslexic she's already working hard at school and she needs time to relax. Think about the long game - if you are already falling back on reward and punishment how are you going to get her to do schoolwork in secondary? She needs to want to do it herself.

Theres also very little evidence that learning spellings helps in any way - reading is the best way to learn to spell, and in any case, there are spell checkers now, so it's not the big deal it once was.

Agree with others have a break and then restart - maybe try and fit 15 minutes in the morning after breakfast and an app in the car. We found Times Tables Rockstars dire with both our children (both completely different characters too) - we like Mr Thorns maths apps, very simple but fast and straight forward. After school is hard for children - just too tired / mentally drained.

if you have the money, i would get a tutor. removes the battle from your relationship while also making sure she's doing what she needs to do to stop falling behind.

Not exactly rolling in it, but we can look into the cost and availability where we live.

I'm dyslexic and so's my DD and we just do the minimum homework. She hates doing school type work at home and I know it's really exhausting having to work on your weaknesses all day at school, to then have to do it at home too is just too much. I still struggle with reading, maths and spelling because it's my working memory and processing speed that's the problem not lack of practice so repeatedly making her practice is going to be more stress than help. I like to see home as a counterbalance to school so I focus on the things school do less and that play on her strengths. My DD is good at art and drawing so I encourage her to use that as a way to draw out her thoughts and convey her ideas which she enjoys doing. She does art every day after school. She loves the library and I read to her every day but I don't force her to read. We do much more learning through doing and practical activities, any interest she has we follow that. Project based learning where reading, writing and maths happens incidentally works better for dyslexic people than rote learning. I'm never going to learn my times tables and I'd love to get all that time I wasted being made to rote learn them back. My parents even made me listen to times tables songs on repeat on car journeys. It really effects your self esteem long term to realize your parents care so much about you learning something that your brain just won't hold onto. Letting her practice her strengths instead let's her build self esteem getting really good at something she enjoys.

All kids hate homework regardless. I'd discuss with the teachers or other party to ensure it's an appropriate amount and an appropriate level but I'd say you just need to pick the carrot or the stick and then find the right amount. It's taken us a loooong time with DD who is ND but a conversation about how important it is for her future (as in she needs to show willing so she can be in good sets and teachers see her ability/work ethic and she needs to learn a work ethic and not be a lazy toad) and promise/refusal of something exciting at the weekend based on her completion. She also gets detentions if she doesn't do it.

It's hard tho because personally, I think they should be teaching them enough in lesson and it doesn't actually show their intelligence etc. most of DDs is multiple choice and the remember the correct answer. They don't watch the learning because it takes so long and it feels like a pointless exercise. I'll be taking it up with the school but it's good to show willing.

My ASD dd is dyslexic too. She really doesn't like studying after school but I implemented 10 minutes immediately after snack and before she was allowed TV. She reads before school. I started on the days with no clubs and when she seemed less tired and now it's every day. I did have a lot of push back. But it doesn't sound that easy for you. Maybe start with times tables songs. Lots of praise for even listening. Start with a times table grid for rock stars for the first round to ease into it?

If she can lean the pattern i.e. 2, 4, 6, 8, she can write it down next to 1, 2, 3, 4 and 'know' it that way.

@BarbarasRhabarberBar do you have more than one child? I have two differently ND children and they have very different abilities to engage with school work at home. So I don't agree that all kids hate homework.

From my experience, I'm not sure if it's possible to tell 'lazy toad' from 'working so hard at school that downtime at home is a necessity'.