Child not getting phonics

Complexcass · 2024-02-15T17:42:35+00:00

My DD is 5 yo, started reception Sept 23 and have had parents evening this week. She is still not blending her words, she knows the sounds but cannot understand putting them together. She is under the senco, on waiting list for assessment for ASD and the need for SLT. Her speech was fine until she started school and has since had a major regression, she stammers and struggles to get her words out whilst also mixing up words now even though she knew them previously. Teacher was not very reassuring and just kept saying I don’t know, we have tried, but not getting there so I dont know sorry. Feels like they have given up on her already!! any advice/ideas or experiences?

JanewaysBun · 15/02/2024 17:46

Sorry to hear that OP. My DS has ASD And really struggled with blending in reception. Over the holidays something clicked and he started y1 with it all in place. The senco said some children (esp with ASD) will find it all suddenly makes sense one day and surprise you. ds is great at reading now, hope it all clicks for your DD soon

Silverbirchtwo · 15/02/2024 17:46

I don't know but it sounds like they are confusing her with the phonics if she could talk well before.

I hated being taught French in phonics, when I was a bit older than her (12 or so) it made no sense to me, so I'm biased!

mitogoshi · 15/02/2024 17:51

My dd struggled terribly with phonics, she's dyslexic (obviously diagnosed a couple of years later). Her older sister also didn't get phonics but thankfully through a move managed to miss reception entirely so arrived in school reading chapter books having been homeschooled by me, my way wasn't phonics because I can't blend either!

DPotter · 15/02/2024 17:51

As a child phonics were like Japanese to my ears - couldn't understand what the hell was going on and still can't. But have always been an avid reader and educated to masters level. Thank God for spell checkers!

So I agree I think she's being confused by them.

TheSnowyOwl · 15/02/2024 17:55

My autistic daughters have always needed things explained multiple times and in different ways. Is the Reception teacher inexperienced?

Notevenslightlydamp · 15/02/2024 17:55

Death by phonics is unhelpful for some children, particularly if they have language needs. They need to teach her phonics because Ofsted are twats but she also needs a more comprehensive, multi sensory approach to literacy acquisition. Whole word reading is seen as very unfashionable but a 'top down' approach (real books and whole words) -done in conjunction with a structured phonics system - works better for some children as it makes more sense. Read to her as much as possible, put post it notes on everything in your house, put subtitles on the TV. Focus on comprehension, ask questions about books - not just where and what, but also why and how. Some children learn to 'bark at print' - they can read the words but lack deeper understanding of what it means, so however she learns to read, she needs to have good understanding. Arrange a meeting with the SENCO to discuss it further if needed, some teachers, especially if they are relatively inexperienced, may not know how to develop reading outside of phonics.

Rocksonabeach · 15/02/2024 17:58

My son didn’t talk - he made sounds that no one not even me could understand. He went to school being able to ‘talk’ but not really. He didn’t get phonics at all. A hearing test aged 4 meant a diagnosis of 80% hearing loss. Constant ear infections did this - he went to a special speech and language school at 5 and left aged 7. Just to reassure you

get a hearing test
get SALT
I did a programme at home with him to learn blending neither him or his older sister got phonics - within 6 months of the programme we followed daily he was reading
he scored 38/40 on his year 1 phonics test
noise cancelling headphones has been a game changer for him

get Audio CDs and have them on - talk to her with flash cards and sight recognition ones again I can recommend a system for you that we used

Rocksonabeach · 15/02/2024 18:01

The programme I taught him is a mixture of blending, letter and sound recognition and word recognition - it saved us! School were useless by the way ….. I’m glad I did it at home as they were so dismissive of him and said it was cognitive - I knew it wasn’t and wasn’t surprised when the hearing test came back - meanwhile in reception his teacher wrote on his feedback form ‘X is naughty and rude and fails to follow instructions ‘…. He can’t hear you !

Nix32 · 15/02/2024 18:03

@TheSnowyOwl That's really insulting. The teaching of phonics is incredibly precise and very time consuming and labour intensive. If that's what a school is doing - and the government is telling them all to do it that way - the teacher will have no choice in the matter.

OhhhhhhhhBiscuits · 15/02/2024 18:04

You could use a daily programme like Word Hornet or Toe by Toe to help. My 7 year old has "dyslexic traits" but can't be assessed until she is 8 (it used to be 7 but the BDA have now recommended 8 due to covid development delays) so we are waiting again for the assessment. Word Hornet has helped so much with her reading and writing. We have done it every single day and I think that also helps. Just 10 minutes every day.

ZebraPensAreLife · 15/02/2024 18:05

Nix32 · 15/02/2024 18:03

@TheSnowyOwl That's really insulting. The teaching of phonics is incredibly precise and very time consuming and labour intensive. If that's what a school is doing - and the government is telling them all to do it that way - the teacher will have no choice in the matter.

Even if that means that some children in the class will fall behind, when using another method could help them? That’s shit of the school / government / whoever is to blame!

fishfingersandtoes · 15/02/2024 18:10

Notevenslightlydamp · 15/02/2024 17:55

Death by phonics is unhelpful for some children, particularly if they have language needs. They need to teach her phonics because Ofsted are twats but she also needs a more comprehensive, multi sensory approach to literacy acquisition. Whole word reading is seen as very unfashionable but a 'top down' approach (real books and whole words) -done in conjunction with a structured phonics system - works better for some children as it makes more sense. Read to her as much as possible, put post it notes on everything in your house, put subtitles on the TV. Focus on comprehension, ask questions about books - not just where and what, but also why and how. Some children learn to 'bark at print' - they can read the words but lack deeper understanding of what it means, so however she learns to read, she needs to have good understanding. Arrange a meeting with the SENCO to discuss it further if needed, some teachers, especially if they are relatively inexperienced, may not know how to develop reading outside of phonics.

This

Dancerprancer19 · 15/02/2024 18:15

Do all the assessments as other people have suggested and do make a fuss with the teacher, she should be putting extra phonics sessions in for her. It’s a major focus of any primary school. Ask who the reading lead is and ask to speak to them, I’m sure catch up will suddenly emerge!

But also, to reassure you, I taught a little one in year one who I had taught in Reception too. I tried absolutely everything with them and I mean everything! I was also the reading lead and was told my phonics teaching was outstanding. One day in mid year one, they literally woke up and “got it”. It was joyful to see! Their parents were as amazed as I was.

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 15/02/2024 18:18

Notevenslightlydamp · 15/02/2024 17:55

Death by phonics is unhelpful for some children, particularly if they have language needs. They need to teach her phonics because Ofsted are twats but she also needs a more comprehensive, multi sensory approach to literacy acquisition. Whole word reading is seen as very unfashionable but a 'top down' approach (real books and whole words) -done in conjunction with a structured phonics system - works better for some children as it makes more sense. Read to her as much as possible, put post it notes on everything in your house, put subtitles on the TV. Focus on comprehension, ask questions about books - not just where and what, but also why and how. Some children learn to 'bark at print' - they can read the words but lack deeper understanding of what it means, so however she learns to read, she needs to have good understanding. Arrange a meeting with the SENCO to discuss it further if needed, some teachers, especially if they are relatively inexperienced, may not know how to develop reading outside of phonics.

A fantastic reply!

BabaBarrio · 15/02/2024 18:20

My dyslexic DD never mastered phonics either.
It doesn’t make sense to them because their coding and decoding of letters is disabled.

They learn things like “th” and “st” and can remember it, and with hard work can realise that what looks like “nt” is probably “th” and “ls” is probably the “st” (with dyslexics, letters change order and look like other letters)

But when you get to building words from phonics it all falls apart because

for example the word “thing” could look like “qnith” …and so they can’t use phonics to sound out “thing.” They can’t look at what is “qnith” and sound out a “th” and an “ing”. You are more likely to get “nnng th?”

SecretLifeOfAMole · 15/02/2024 18:34

My almost 7yr old has just started reading more fluently. We had to put the work in, reading most nights with her as it just wasn't clicking. School also did daily reading with her. Taking out biff and chip type books from the library helped.

Before this we had to go through the sound's frequently so she "got" them.

So basically lots of input from us, the school and the child should eventually get it but it may take a while.

TheSnowyOwl · 15/02/2024 18:36

Nix32 · 15/02/2024 18:03

@TheSnowyOwl That's really insulting. The teaching of phonics is incredibly precise and very time consuming and labour intensive. If that's what a school is doing - and the government is telling them all to do it that way - the teacher will have no choice in the matter.

How is it insulating?

BertieBotts · 15/02/2024 18:41

I think they tagged the wrong poster.

OP could she be a gestalt processor? A lot of autistic children are.

Lemonademoney · 15/02/2024 18:45

OP sounds silly but does she have a dominant hand? Is she ok at crossing the midline? Is her core strength good? If she’s swapping hands this can actually cause a confusion in the language area of the brain - we had this with one of my dc and I honestly thought I was going mad at the time as I couldn’t understand what was happening to my previously articulate child.

mathanxiety · 15/02/2024 18:46

Your child is only five and is possibly feeling a massive amount of anxiety over school because of the unreasonable expectation that she will be able to absorb phonics.

Children of five are encouraged to hold a pencil right and maybe spell their names in the US, with very basic letter-sound association introduced in kindergarten (aged 5-6). They are taught to blend the following year (6-7) and it usually takes very little effort for them to 'get' it.

mathanxiety · 15/02/2024 18:50

Nix32 · 15/02/2024 18:03

@TheSnowyOwl That's really insulting. The teaching of phonics is incredibly precise and very time consuming and labour intensive. If that's what a school is doing - and the government is telling them all to do it that way - the teacher will have no choice in the matter.

The teaching of phonics to children aged 4 and 5 in the UK is based on research that was done on children aged 5-6-7 in the US. It's a massive flaw in the foundations of the programme.

mathanxiety · 15/02/2024 18:50

Notevenslightlydamp · 15/02/2024 17:55

Death by phonics is unhelpful for some children, particularly if they have language needs. They need to teach her phonics because Ofsted are twats but she also needs a more comprehensive, multi sensory approach to literacy acquisition. Whole word reading is seen as very unfashionable but a 'top down' approach (real books and whole words) -done in conjunction with a structured phonics system - works better for some children as it makes more sense. Read to her as much as possible, put post it notes on everything in your house, put subtitles on the TV. Focus on comprehension, ask questions about books - not just where and what, but also why and how. Some children learn to 'bark at print' - they can read the words but lack deeper understanding of what it means, so however she learns to read, she needs to have good understanding. Arrange a meeting with the SENCO to discuss it further if needed, some teachers, especially if they are relatively inexperienced, may not know how to develop reading outside of phonics.

Agree with every word of this.

Abouttimeforanamechange · 15/02/2024 18:55

Your child is only five and is possibly feeling a massive amount of anxiety over school because of the unreasonable expectation that she will be able to absorb phonics.

Why is it an unreasonable expectation? Lots of five year olds can absorb phonics.

CherryMaple · 15/02/2024 19:09

DD didn’t get phonics even by Y2. She also couldn’t make sense of high frequency words - no exaggeration to say she couldn’t even reliably read ‘the’ in KS1.

She was diagnosed with dyslexia in Y3. Since then, we have paid for a session with a specialist tutor after school each week, and she caught up fast. She is now doing GCSEs in high school and she is doing great - loves to do creative writing in her own time, etc.

Reception and KS1 when she didn’t have a diagnosis were HARD…. Teachers gave her a lot of grief for being ‘slow’ and ‘lazy’ ☹️ and had no comprehension that she needed to learn in a different way. Getting a diagnosis and some support were transformational.

Original poster

Complexcass · 15/02/2024 19:47

Thank you for all the replies so far!

Reassuring to hear sometimes it just takes a bit longer and then clicks. Im hopeful!!

@notevenslightlydamp
Thank you. Yes frustrating - teacher said to me she has to blend before progressing because it’s the government scheme. So if not then would they just give us picture books forever ? 🤣
I think we do a lot of the things you suggested and so will continue with that.

@rocksonabeach
Sorry dont mean to drip feed but i should have said she has had a hearing test already and apart from small build up of wax is fine 🤷🏻‍♀️
How do i get SALT? Is it through GP or private? Noise cancelling headphones sounds like something she would get on with. Do they wear them all the time? At school? So sad/shocked to read the school wrote he was naughty 😢

@ohhhhhhbiscuits thank you i will look into those !!

@dancerprancer thank you! I was unsure whether to push it with the teacher or just try to tackle it at home. That is a reassuring story too!! I am not sure if we have a reading lead. I will find out.

I wonder if she is dyslexic. Her writing seems ok just reading and speech. Numbers are good too.

@lemonademoney
Interesting! She is left handed but does have some balance issues and is generally “uncoordinated”.

@cherrymaple
This makes a lot of sense and is a helpful and reassuring story. Im glad to hear she is thriving now ❤️

OP posts: