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6 Weeks Pregnant - Should I Be Looking at Schools?

101 replies

WestLondonMummyToBe · 11/02/2024 08:44

In West London. I’m thinking particularly of Pembridge Hall and Wetherby. Don’t you need to register from birth? Are there others I should know about like this?

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WestLondonMummyToBe · 11/02/2024 20:57

@Helenahatstand Sorry I forgot about the paywall.

‘COMPETITION for places at the most exclusive prep schools has reached such a frenzy that some mothers are engineering a place at the front of the queue by carefully timing their caesarean births.

‘The head teacher at one of London's most sought-after prepreps (for the youngest prep school pupils) has advised those parents who are likely to have their child by caesarean section to opt for a date in the first week of the month.

‘At some schools serving affluent hotspots in London and the home counties, the date of birth is the deciding factor in getting a place, with those born in the first few days of the month having the highest chance of being accepted.

‘At Wetherby, the boys' school in London forfour to eight-year-olds, favoured by the Notting Hill set and once attended by Princes William and Harry, parents must apply as soon as their child is born.
The offspring of Liz Hurley, the actress, Viscount Linley, son of Princess Margaret, and Elle Macpherson, the model, are also among past and present pupils.

‘While wealth is a necessary precondition for admission - fees are £11,400 a year - it is not sufficient to guarantee a place. Wetherby and its sister school for girls, Pembridge Hall, allot five places a month on a first-come-first-served basis. In some months all the places have gone in the first week.

‘There are 63 places a year at Wetherby for four-year-olds and each month the head, Jenny Aviss, offers a place to the first five parents who complete registration forms.

‘"I wouldn't dream of advocating that a mother has a caesarean section, but if they know already that will happen, I advise them to book in early in the month, rather than later," she said.
"I tell them if you have an option, don't choose the 31st, have it on the 1st and call on the 2nd." Parents are not allowed to book a place until the child is born.

’Prep schools that guarantee children a place at birth are now in a minority. Most schools will put children on their list from birth but interview, and sometimes give them formal tests, at the age of four for an actual place. However, according to Sarah Drummond, co-founder of The Good Schools Guide, this may put children under considerable pressure.

‘On the other hand, selection by date of birth can put pressure on mothers. While the vast majority of women who have caesareans need it for medical reasons, more than 10,000 operations a year are carried out at the request of mothers - and some are conducted for reasons of lifestyle.

‘Elizabeth Marsden, head of Pembridge Hall, said she knew of two cases where mothers had set dates early in the month for caesareans.

‘"I have heard of it happening, but I would prefer not to know. It is a little bit overkeen. The problem is we could fill our places six times over and, at two to three days old, a child can be too old to get a place," she said.

‘"Parents do take desperate measures to get a place. One sent flowers every week for a year to the bursar, but still did not get a place. Parents ring and say, 'We will pay for a new library. What can we do to get a place?'"

‘One woman who refused to leave the building until her child was given a place had to be removed by the police.
Schools that require registration at birth insist the system is fairer and more practical than selecting four-year-olds on the basis of tests.

‘"It is difficult for the 'first-time buyers'," said Aviss. "They ring with a six-month-old and they have no chance. They say you don't think about your child's school while you are still breast-feeding.

‘"But those parents who know the system accept that it is fair. I can tell them why I have not given their child a place. They were just born too late in the month.
"The clued-in father leaves the labour ward as soon as the baby arrives and provides us with a filled-out registration form."’

OP posts:
Pointerdogsrule · 11/02/2024 21:09

Christ, fees £11,400 a year!

Most preps in the outer London suburbs are 15K now, Central London are 21K minimum!

WestLondonMummyToBe · 11/02/2024 21:22

@Pointerdogsrule That’s from 2007. The price really struck me too. Quite a difference now!

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Pointerdogsrule · 11/02/2024 21:58

WestLondonMummyToBe · 11/02/2024 21:22

@Pointerdogsrule That’s from 2007. The price really struck me too. Quite a difference now!

Yes!

Best of luck (and congrats BTW.)

For the schools you mention, you just have to think ahead. Unless other parents are in 'the game' it must be appear completely bonkers, but stay calm , it will all work out!

Londonforestmum · 11/02/2024 22:16

Pointerdogsrule · 11/02/2024 20:54

It makes for a more rounded school.

I think because the shadow of two exceptional girls schools in the area ( St Pauls girls and Godolphin,) and the fact Bute feeds both schools, the girls for the 7+ entry, Bute can pick the best of the best. And of course picking potential at 7+ is more realistic than 4+.

The ballot is a great leveller , without it Bute just becomes another hot house from 4+, bring in 100's of girls and pick the top 20 that appear to glow with intelligence already.

So they basically want some wild cards mixed in with the ones they have selected at 3/4+? Wondering why most other schools don't take this approach.

MusicMum80s · 11/02/2024 23:19

@Londonforestmum no, at 4 its a ballot as Bute thinks selection at 4 is unreliable. They offer more places at 7 though based on academic selection which theoretically should bolster the academic quality of the intake as these kids will much more certainly be bright.

NoOrdinaryMorning · 11/02/2024 23:20

Is this what life is like in London? Applying for schools before knowing if your baby is even male or female? Crikey

Londonforestmum · 12/02/2024 07:31

MusicMum80s · 11/02/2024 23:19

@Londonforestmum no, at 4 its a ballot as Bute thinks selection at 4 is unreliable. They offer more places at 7 though based on academic selection which theoretically should bolster the academic quality of the intake as these kids will much more certainly be bright.

Oh ok! I would have thought a ballot was even more unreliable than a 4+ assesment. But maybe they think the assessment is just a waste of time so round rather just do it randomly which makes sense I guess. Just funny how most other schools go down the assessment route.

MusicMum80s · 12/02/2024 07:49

@Londonforestmum Exactly. Wimbledon after tracking progress of admitted kids vs their 4+ assessment results have concluded there is no correlation and are moving to a ballot as well. Essentially those who did best at 4 plus didn’t correspondingly do best in year 6 academically.

I think it really depends on the assessment being used by the school. Those that are more akin to IQ tests are more accurate I suspect for 4+ though still not as reliable as assessment at 7.

Hihosilver123 · 12/02/2024 07:51

Pointerdogsrule · 11/02/2024 20:54

It makes for a more rounded school.

I think because the shadow of two exceptional girls schools in the area ( St Pauls girls and Godolphin,) and the fact Bute feeds both schools, the girls for the 7+ entry, Bute can pick the best of the best. And of course picking potential at 7+ is more realistic than 4+.

The ballot is a great leveller , without it Bute just becomes another hot house from 4+, bring in 100's of girls and pick the top 20 that appear to glow with intelligence already.

‘The best of the best’
I find this a sad comment. Such pressure at such a young age. How would you define ‘best’? Children have so many qualities 🤷🏼‍♀️

To the poster who asked if this is what it’s like in London, the answer is no for the vast majority of people.

arlequin · 12/02/2024 10:20

NoOrdinaryMorning · 11/02/2024 23:20

Is this what life is like in London? Applying for schools before knowing if your baby is even male or female? Crikey

No not for normal folk using state schools!

Pointerdogsrule · 12/02/2024 12:02

Hihosilver123 · 12/02/2024 07:51

‘The best of the best’
I find this a sad comment. Such pressure at such a young age. How would you define ‘best’? Children have so many qualities 🤷🏼‍♀️

To the poster who asked if this is what it’s like in London, the answer is no for the vast majority of people.

How would I define best?

A simple measure would be test scores, but the whole picture of course has to be taken, scores make up part of that, how else do you sort 100's of girls for very limited places???

Schools like Bute are sensitive to this, group play and activities are part of the 7+ entry, but it would be cruel to not test a potential pupil how they fare on a maths paper, because the school has high academic standards .

If a child is very smart, its not 'pressure' to be pushed , stressing very smart here, not good or average. in which case I agree.

Also the pressure often stems from parents , especially in a in a noncompetitive environment like Bute. The pressure from parents can crush a child entering them to 5 schools at 7+ , just 6 years old, tutoring every day with an external tutor, madness.

7+ entry is hard as they are still little really , I agree, but it can be done without pressure, that's down to the parents.

Londonforestmum · 12/02/2024 14:41

MusicMum80s · 12/02/2024 07:49

@Londonforestmum Exactly. Wimbledon after tracking progress of admitted kids vs their 4+ assessment results have concluded there is no correlation and are moving to a ballot as well. Essentially those who did best at 4 plus didn’t correspondingly do best in year 6 academically.

I think it really depends on the assessment being used by the school. Those that are more akin to IQ tests are more accurate I suspect for 4+ though still not as reliable as assessment at 7.

My child's 4+ assessment (and from hearing of others this is quite common) was more of a informal play session rather than IQ or anything.

I assumed it was more aiming to filter out any children with behavioural issues etc more than anything else to be honest!

MusicMum80s · 14/02/2024 19:35

For schools that state explicitly that they are selecting at 4 for academic potential, even though the assessments are structured via a playdate, they are very much attempting to assess cognitive ability.

WestLondonMummyToBe · 14/02/2024 19:48

Re: the best of the best. This is why I’m most interested in schools like Wetherby and Pembridge Hall which are non-selective. To be able to secure a place at one of those and avoid having to go through 4+ assessments would be truly wonderful. Unfortunately it means being very proactive very early though.

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MusicMum80s · 14/02/2024 19:53

4+ assessments aren’t stressful for kids. They very much feel like a play date even for academically selective schools. I also think you can’t really prepare for them as schools are rarely looking for specific set of knowledge the kids should have (beyond basic preschool stuff they’ll know anyway). It’s more about assessing intelligence (which is very tricky at this age).

Rosiiee · 14/02/2024 20:04

I’d honestly put my feet up and get through the first trimester. It’ll be easier to apply to schools with an EDD and a gender anyway. I’d worry about jinxing the pregnancy thinking about schools so early (but that’s just superstitious me talking)!

Helenahatstand · 14/02/2024 20:21

MusicMum80s · 14/02/2024 19:53

4+ assessments aren’t stressful for kids. They very much feel like a play date even for academically selective schools. I also think you can’t really prepare for them as schools are rarely looking for specific set of knowledge the kids should have (beyond basic preschool stuff they’ll know anyway). It’s more about assessing intelligence (which is very tricky at this age).

But what if your 4 year old isn't confident with strangers? Bring left would have been upsetting fir mind. I've got two academic and social kids. I'm a teacher so know they're in the top few percent ability wise. But at age 4 both were v shy - they didn't like it if I wasn't close by at parties or playdates at other people's houses for example. They're also young in the year, so I imagine would have been assessed young?

WestLondonMummyToBe · 14/02/2024 21:02

Rosiiee · 14/02/2024 20:04

I’d honestly put my feet up and get through the first trimester. It’ll be easier to apply to schools with an EDD and a gender anyway. I’d worry about jinxing the pregnancy thinking about schools so early (but that’s just superstitious me talking)!

I know it seems awful to be having to think about it at this stage, doesn’t it? I hate the thought of jinxing things too. I’ve just looking at a nursery though where 12 weeks is apparently too late to register. And since you have to pay a fee register, I’d ideally like to see it first to be sure I’m definitely interested.

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Violettaa · 14/02/2024 21:15

I’m in SE London so we’ve just had the palaver of the Dulwich schools 4+ for my elder DD. I know you’re a different area, but you’re wise to avoid it.

Here’s my cautionary tale. Younger DD is nearly one. I miscarried a pregnanacy just before her, and signed that baby up to some of the best nurseries when newly pregnant.

I was pregnant again quickly but kept the registrations (DD was early so the dates aren’t wildly out). But even though SHE WAS REGISTERED BEFORE CONCEPTION, I can’t get all the childcare days I’d ideally like when I go back to work in a couple of months.

London can be mental. Good thing I love other things about it!

WestLondonMummyToBe · 14/02/2024 21:35

Violettaa · 14/02/2024 21:15

I’m in SE London so we’ve just had the palaver of the Dulwich schools 4+ for my elder DD. I know you’re a different area, but you’re wise to avoid it.

Here’s my cautionary tale. Younger DD is nearly one. I miscarried a pregnanacy just before her, and signed that baby up to some of the best nurseries when newly pregnant.

I was pregnant again quickly but kept the registrations (DD was early so the dates aren’t wildly out). But even though SHE WAS REGISTERED BEFORE CONCEPTION, I can’t get all the childcare days I’d ideally like when I go back to work in a couple of months.

London can be mental. Good thing I love other things about it!

Thank you for getting it and I’m sorry for your loss. The thought of doing that if I were to miscarry actually had occurred to me too, which probably sounds beyond awful.

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Worriedisither · 14/02/2024 22:29

Here’s the short version;
wrtherby and pembridge no way near as popular now as they were 5 years ago . Lots of issues with alpha plus and many people I know would avoid them at all costs- Run down classrooms and underpaid teachers . Broadhurst- total scam “we’re full “ at 12 weeks is a PR stunt. Magically a place will open up last minute and you will be so thrilled you got lucky you’ll take it and find the School borders on child abuse - have a recent search on mumsnet. Avoid at all costs.
if you’re going to stay put location wise maybe makes sense at 20 week and up to see a few very local nurseries that are a short walk and have hours that would work for you and a homey positive vibe. Bar the Butes of this world ( and there are very few ) you shouldn’t have any issues registering after birth if you are so inclined - leave it to the hubby to take care of but yes keep track of deadlines etc…

MusicMum80s · 14/02/2024 23:30

@Helenahatstand thats really a different point. If your child has separation anxiety to first day of school will be upsetting for them.

That doesn’t make ‘school’ per se upsetting as a general description.

The 4+ isn’t inherently stressful for kids. Many come out asking to do it again and are completely oblivious to the fact they’ve been assessed.

The schools assess them with other children born in the same month state they adjust the scores for age. However, all of the assessment process at this age is very imprecise and plenty of very able children won’t be selected because they were having a bad day or whatever. I know kids who weren’t selected at 4 but were at 7 via more formal academic testing so it’s far from foolproof.

Londonforestmum · 15/02/2024 07:27

@MusicMum80s
Even though it's very imprecise would you say it's totally pointless and most schools would be better of doing a ballot type thing instead or giving places to first who have signed up?

I would agree that it must be very hard to gauge levels of intelligence/ curiosity/susceptibility to following instructions / whatever it is they say they're looking for in a 3/4 year old, but surely there are certain things you can pick up on, or at the very least filter out those who are clearly behind or not as bright? Or is there just really not correlation between behaviour and milestones met at that age to achievement later in life?

MusicMum80s · 15/02/2024 07:38

I think it depends on how the assessment is run.

Some schools feel their unique process is very beneficial (despite some known limitations) and even during Covid wouldn’t abandon it and insisted kids come in.

Other schools think their process isn’t very accurate like Wimbledon High.

I don’t think all schools do the same thing so I can’t generalise. However, at my kids school the process in general seems fairly good at selecting kids who are academically able.