Horrible children!

[Della999]

Please help - I need some perspective here, as I might just be being an arsehole!

Short version - I have a DC in Yr3, same school since reception, 1 form entry, but classes aren't full. DC's class is boy-heavy, and alot of them seem to be unkind Ophs! I work hard to try and instill kindness in my children, and I expect a certain maturity from them all, probably far and away above their real age. This being said, my child in Yr 3 has friends, but the boys that they want to run with, all seem to be unkind, and try to exclude them to a varying degree. I have spoken individually to their mums and it does improve, and these boys also fall out with each other a lot in their group. But is this just to be expected at school? Is it just their age? It wasn't this way for me at school, although my DH says it can be. DC is moving schools soon (house move has precipitated this) and one boy said to my child 'I'm glad you're moving schools'. I mean, I'm raging. This is my eldest child, and has been getting worse over the last 2yrs, so don't have much of a frame of reference. I think my child is neurotypical. The mums at the school are all individually fine, but I wouldn't say any of them are friends.

Some of its to be expected, but also I think it's to do with how the school handle it. I have one DC whose school support their friendships and have a hard line on bullying, and another DC who is at a school which doesn't have that approach and thinks 'boys will be boys' and as a result lots of lower level bullying (well bullying at all levels really) and a lot more friendship issues, so I do think the culture of the school as well as the individual teachers approach has a big impact on this

Please Della, don't take it so personally. Many kids in Y3 are simply rude. They are too young to diffrentiate between what is right and what is wrong. And from that point all depends how the school is handling it- if they do something to instill kindness in kids or they just pretend that they are not seeing it.
It is good that you guys are moving because you may end up in the happier place. Please select the school very carefully. Look at the performance and how the kids are behaving.

I think it's how the kids figure out how to spot the arseholes and find better friends and the arseholes discover they won't be invited to things/have many friends if they continue to be arseholes....ie it's a life learning and possibly better to learn younger when kids are more forgiving/changeable.
It's difficult to see your DC upset over these changing friendships but it is so common. I think to be raging about a comment made probably rather flippantly by a 7/8 year old is probably OTT especially if your DC is actually moving schools.

i think this age group was affected by the covid situation and this is showing up globally with immature social skills.
Pandemic set back social and emotional growth of children in England, study finds | Coronavirus | The Guardian
loads more academic papers on the subject if you google.

Page 2 | to believe that some children in the classroom are acting as if they are three or four years younger than their actual age. | Mumsnet

I think it’s largely luck and how the school deals with bad behaviour. It’s a real shame when it happens to your child but a fresh start may be exactly what’s needed.

We’ve had a kid join our class and their behaviour has been awful from the start. We’ve gone from having a class which never had any major issues to pretty much every single child having a problem with this new child and it seems children across multiple year groups have noticed how awful this child’s behaviour is. I feel sad for them because they’ve behaved so appallingly that they’ve not been invited to multiple parties this term.

This being said, my child in Yr 3 has friends, but the boys that they want to run with, all seem to be unkind, and try to exclude them to a varying degree.

What exactly is happening here? Is it that your child has friends but would prefer to have different friends? So the children he wants to be friends with don't want to be friends with him? Or is your child being targeted above and beyond the usual spats between the boys?

This is a difficult one because, as posters have pointed out, children that age are not always polite, considerate and inclusive. They are often rude and thoughtless. It seems excessive to be 'raging' over this behaviour, even when it affects your own DC, because this is just what a lot of kids are like at this age. Many will hopefully grow out of it.

The inclusion thing is tricky. When commenting on previous threads re bullying/exclusion, I've always come down firmly on the side that, since we force children to go to school, schools must be inclusive and supportive places for kids. It is not acceptable for a child to have no one to play with because no one wants to play with them. It's up to the school to implement strategies to address children being excluded by their peers.

Having said that, some kids just don't gel and ultimately you can't force children to be friends with each other if they don't want to. And you say your child has friends, but just not the kids they want to 'run with'. So they're not been excluded as such if so, it's just the kids they'd like as friends don't reciprocate. Unfortunately, you can't force friendships between children.

If you told me that my child was being unkind to your child (anything physical, name-calling, pointedly excluding them in activities), I would talk to them and come down hard on the behaviour. But if it was simply that my child preferred to play with other children apart from your child (and this could be for many reasons), I'd be hard-pressed to know what to do about it and whether I should do anything at all.

One thing I would say is that I think it is harder for more emotionally mature and emotionally sensitive children to 'fit in' with their peers at this age. I mention this in case you come across the same issues at the new school. If your DC is mature beyond their age, your DC's peers may have a certain amount of 'catching up' to do before all the children are on the same wavelength. Ime even in Y3, the children who have the easiest time of it are the middle-of-the-road, easygoing, slightly boisterous ones who are happy to run around in circles in the playground shouting and chasing each other.

I think that guiding children through friendship issues is never black and white
. Personally I would be very wary of how you use terms like "unkind".

It's a loaded word and often can be a way of projecting your feelings of hurt into a negative thought about others.

I feel hurt≠someone else is unkind, or not necessarily anyway.

In the same way that your child is not being unkind to the group of friends he has by trying to get in with another group.

Telling him to go away and that they don't want him to play is just the truth as they see it ,said by little kids. There's no way of knowing why this is and it's not important anyway .Later on this may be disguised behind excuses to attempt to save hurt feelings but the end result is the same. If someone doesn't want you they probably weren't a good fit anyway and this goes for all types of relationship. Trying to get in with a group that doesn't want you is like trying to modify your self to be in a relationship and it never works.

I teach my children that you can't control others' behaviour, just your own.

This! Had same conversation with DC last night. Tell your child to be friendly to everyone but if someone isn’t nice to move on and do your best to ignore them. As this poster said it’s a good lesson in recognising A holes and in building a resilient child.

Thank you for all the responses. I think you are all right, and I need to not project too much of my own baggage on to 7-8yos! Remembering a bit of compassion, and teaching our DC that other people have lots going on with them, is important. Resilience training isn’t just for the kids!