My yr2 DD progress - am I right to be a bit concerned?

[Towmcir]

My DD started year 2 in September. She is August born. When I refer to the groups, there’s obvious ability grouping in the class even though the kids/parents aren’t told, six children out of a class of 30 are in each group, five groups in the class.

In reception, she was doing really well and the teacher had nothing but praise (other than that she sometimes needed brought back to task). She was in the “top group” for maths, phonics and reading.

Similar story for year 1, although after Easter in year one she was moved down to the second ability group in phonics and reading.

In year 2, she’s been moved down again to the fourth (out of 5) ability group for phonics and third for reading, and down to the third group in maths. We’ve just had parents evening and the teacher shrugged it off as the ability groups are just reflective of the class and she’s doing ok, but couldn’t give any answer at all when we asked why our DD wasn’t making progress at similar rates to her peers and was now seemingly going backwards (both in ability as well as groups). We know it’s knocked her confidence massively going downwards in the groups as she did have pride that she was up there.

I know the groupings aren’t the end of the world as it’s out of our control how well other children are doing and someone will always be lowest etc, but the lack of actual progress and the swift fall down the groups does worry us (especially when we believed she was doing great being in the top groups in reception/year 1 as a summer born, and that hopefully meant she wouldn’t struggle later).

Because the teacher has brushed us off, we’re not sure what to do. Part of me wants to leave it a while, but the other part just wants to understand what is going on to try to ensure she doesn’t actually fall behind where she’s meant to be.

I don’t want to heap pressure on my daughter, but if there’s things we can help with at home we will but this is hard if we’re being told things are fine at school!

What would you do here?

There’s always the possibility of this, especially in the middle groups that I’ve historically not been as aware of (what I’ve called 3 and 4 out of 5).

We’ve tried our best to make a non-issue of the group changes to our daughter, but she obviously knows, especially when her friends are getting harder work.

It is difficult as we shouldn't be pitting kids against each other but then again it's not wrong to have a healthy interest in our child's wellbeing and parents talk. It isn't difficult to figure out where the kids 'rank'

My dd's school has similar setups 5 tables of 6. She's easily one of the best readers in the class but 3rd or 4th table for Maths. I'm equally concerened because I think it's a behavioural/lack of engagement thing rather than an ability thing. Her numerical reasoning is excellent when she can actually be convinced to use it. I'm not sure that her being in a lower group with lower ability work is really doing anything for her confidence or to convince her to do it but then I appreciate that the teachers have to do what they think is best.

I would insist that the school are 100% transparent about what marks she's heading for in Y2 SATs and whether there's been as much of a dip as you think there has and why they think that is. Also I'd take things into my own hands a bit. Get some Maths games for home. Get plenty of reading books or join a library. At the end of the day she's 1 of 30 kids at school. There's only so much they can do

This is pretty much how I feel!

I’ve printed out a KS1 maths SAT test and I’ll be curious as to how she gets on. Having looked at it, I’d be very surprised if she doesn’t meet right now and I think there’s a decent chance she’ll scrape enough marks to get greater depth.

Maybe I’ve got the total wrong end of the stick about her ability and I’m overestimating, but I’ll be very interested to see what she comes out with and how much she will do without saying “I can’t”.

If she’s so different in class to at home it’s a worry for me as it would suggest that she’s not engaged at all at school any more. This is a particular concern now she’s moving down groups because the kids are more challenging and will invariably be more distracting to her as well!

You say that the kids/parents aren’t told that the groups are based on ability, but then say:

“We know it’s knocked her confidence massively going downwards in the groups as she did have pride that she was up there.”

You obviously knew it was based on ability (I agree that it’s easy to work this out even if not explicitly stated by the school) but it sounds like perhaps you told her. Maybe it was in order to praise her (which is understandable if a little foolish) - but I wonder if that is causing pressure and making her worry and lose focus in class?

It’s really, really, important that she doesn’t see what a big deal this plainly is to you. I know you keep saying it’s not important and it’s only progress you worry about but it is so very obvious to any reader of this that this matters. I think it highly likely that your DD can see/feel it and it may be causing performance anxiety. I’m afraid I think it likely you are, hopefully unwittingly, putting pressure on her.

I am a big believer in praising the effort and not the results. Takes the pressure off children while giving them a sense of pride in working at something. Perhaps try that?

It’s totally clear in the class which is the top group. The top groups have a couple of exceptionally bright children, so even if the others in the group aren’t so stand out it’s obvious that the group with these kids in is “top”. Similar and opposite story for the bottom group.

If there’s a top and a bottom group, it’s not rocket science for them to fill in the gaps that there’s groups by ability in the middle.

Is it really such an unusual thing that a kid takes pride in being good at something? The sporty kids are always proud of what they’ve done….

She’s been in 4 of the 5 groups in the last 4 half terms! It’s no wonder she’s upset at the constant moving - she’s not got a chance to settle! A move every single half term suggests there’s some issue!

@IdealisticCynic Of course we’re trying to celebrate effort over achievement, we’re not purposely trying to give our kid a complex.

We just want to understand what is going on. - she hasn’t got a clue that we’ve asked the teachers any of this and we’ve certainly not talking like groups are important at home and more that she tries her best.

Just want to add here in case anything I’ve said comes across wrong, I’m grateful for every response even the ones that aren’t necessarily something I agree with.

We sat down tonight and did the maths SAT papers from last year and got 56/60 which is a scaled score of 112 I think, which would have been greater depth.

I didn’t help at all with the answers, but did have to coax my daughter on to actually keep going. If she’s like this in class I’d not be particularly surprised if she didn’t even try to finish and just gave up at the first question that was a bit tricky for her. There was absolutely no urgency about anything.

I feel this gives us something more to discuss with the teacher, as it proves she is capable but needs help with her attitude towards work.

I’m interested to do the same with the reading and SPAG papers, but suspect the scores will be a fair bit lower!

Maybe your DD is doing really well and has Progressed but other children have progressed more? If the teacher isn’t concerned then I wouldn’t worry, 6 is very young I doubt this will upset your daughter do I’d just leave it and see how things go for a while.

I would say you've got your answer:
She's very academically capable. We're 4 half terms away from SATs and she's already greater depth. She's clearly bright and has learnt a lot and can apply it.

She's also bothered about being moved down groups in maths.

I'd check with the teacher - is it because she's barely completing any work? If so, you need to speak to her and explain. She could do the hard work, but her teacher needs to see it. So she needs to complete more work in her lesson.