Non selective private worth the money?

[Razzmata]

Lots of threads about private vs state, but none about the non-selective privates!

Are they really worth it, speaking if academic value add only, compared to state schools (exclude valued add extra curriculars plz)!

To be specific, feltham has rubbish state schools, DD learns 80% at home. So either I move to twickenham and pay higher rent to get state school I want, Or stay in Feltham and put in private non selective schools like Staines prep. Too late to prep for selective Yr 3 (7+ tests)

i don’t know those schools, but a non-selective private school will generally have academic advantages over a non-selective state, eg

• smaller class sizes
• teachers under less pressure generally so can focus more on teaching
• Disruptive children are not given places or are asked to leave
• Parents are paying for their kids to be there so (massive generalisation) may be more likely to support homework/reading etc

Our kids are in non-selective private (by choice, we didn’t like the selectives in our area) and are doing better academically than I think they would in the state options.

It depends what you value in education.

If it's just the final destination, then perhaps not. But if it's the nature of the whole journey, then it may be very much your preference.

You need to visit the schools and find out the differences in what they offer, then decide which of those actually matter to you (which might of course be very different to what the next person thinks) and also where you see your DC thriving.

And of course affordability - if Labour get in, then there's the prospect of VAT on school fees shortly thereafter

@AbacusAvocado that's re-assuring. Any tips for mums new to private sector?

What to look for why to avoid?

@meditrina I have visited all local privates. Staines prep checked all the boxes for me and most other Asian parents. Other privates were not at all diverse and more boys heavy. Kids were quite stiff when showing around.

How much can vat up the cost? 10%?

VAT will be at whatever rate the government chooses to use. At the moment, standard rate is 20%

Remember to budget anyhow for fees inflation - which tends to run at a few percentage points over inflation

If I were renting, I'd give up the rental in Feltham, move to Twickenham to get into the school I wanted, then after the rental contract ended I'd move back to a cheaper area. It would be a hassle and a cost, but cheaper than ongoing cost of private school. Though if you're needing an in-year place it will depend on a place coming up, and a rental being super close to the school.

My dc is in a non-selective prep (in another part of London) and she is thriving there, but I don't think I'd encourage anyone to enrol in a private school now if finances would be tight with an increase in fees.

For primary non-selective wouldn't bother me. For secondary it would. Unfortunately you end up with everyone that the selectives would take.

We have a number of selective secondary private schools in the city and one non selective. So that one non selective takes all the "rich but thick" or SEN that that the others don't.

Which is great - but probably not what you are paying for...

As someone who teaches at a non-selective prep, I wouldn’t send my child here for the academics. The children in the last state school I taught at were generally doing better academically. They were both pushed harder and given more support despite the class being double or triple the size. That being said, the behaviour is significantly better here and the children do much more PE.

I’d look very carefully at the academics of the school - maybe ask about their maths and English schemes, what homework is like. Ask how children are assessed. I think if the states in your area are really bad, non-selective could be worth it if you can afford it.

I used to teach in a non selective private school, and most children did very well academically. I had a maximum of fifteen children in my class, and time to spend on coaching any children who showed signs of falling behind.
I would say go for the private route but bear in mind the increasing costs.
Holidays tend to be longer, so arranging childcare can be an issue.

@ButterfliesSkies
@jerst
Great feedback both!

Situation:
Finance is not extremely tight, basically hardly any savings after private fee
I'm a single earner so always the risk of single income

Problem: Feltham outstanding schools only 2, and v have been on waiting list since 2 yrs.

Move to twickenham: outstanding schools are mostly faith based (so no chance) or have faith preference eg cofe schools. Them and other good ones like twickenham primary academy are oversubscribed and offer waiting only.

Move home: how do I find a rental close to catchment if I don't know what school is offering a place?
Rental difference from moving will easily be min 800£

Question: Any idea about Staines prep in particular academically?

So you’ll have hardly any savings after paying the fees? Honestly in that case I wouldn’t do it.

Fees go up every single year, by more than inflation.

You’ll also find that things associated with school are more costly - so for example our uniforms are very expensive, lots of specialist kit needed for different sports, longer holidays mean more childcare costs, if the peer group is wealthier then you’ll feel pressure to buy your daughter the latest trendy toys/go on expensive outings etc. The costs can really add up.

Are those two locations really your only option? If you’re renting can you be more flexible with where you move to in order to get access to better state schools?

@AbacusAvocado by not much savings I meant I won't save like half the salary. I would be able to keep up with inflation though.
That said, I'm very scared of change now, given I have no family in UK nor any close friends that I can depend on even for one day. I have made 2 friends here in Feltham, so I feel on a bad day eg hospitalisation, my kid can be taken care of.
I have moved 3 times across (twice in UK) not having been raised in the Uk system, and everytime, adjusting to new gp, dental, hospitals, schools, neighbourhoods, facilities - I feel I'm tired now and scared cz I have to understand the system everytime and ppl at these practices have had varying degrees of skill and cooperation - like I have to learn all over again the local neighbourhoods tricks and tips

Then the so many options confuse me, cz the feedback on schools can be very personal and subjective. I'm scared I'd move to a place where I know 0 families, not know what state school is being offered, end up not in a good catchment to where u get offered and struggle commute wise (single parent)

I don't t know Staines Prep but you could start a new thread with that school name in the title to see if anyone has other opinions.

In your case, I'd be looking at what is on offer that is substantially better than what you're already getting. As you are a single parent, wrap around care might be important, so look at whether the school provides after school clubs (these come at a cost). Also are there any holiday clubs as the independent sector has around 8 weeks off in the summer holidays.

If money is tight or a bit precarious, then I'd continue in state but add in extra tutoring and activities - these will still be a lot cheaper than fees. Join sports clubs - tennis is popular or a kids gym class, buy music tuition, go to museums regularly. You can always look at private for secondary where there will definitely be more added value then with more support and opportunities. Plus if your dc turn out to be academic or sporty or musical then you can apply for scholarships or bursaries to help with the fees.

Anyone else who knows anything about Staines prep or a general view on sending to non-selective preps?

*We have a number of selective secondary private schools in the city and one non selective. So that one non selective takes all the "rich but thick" or SEN that that the others don't.

Which is great - but probably not what you are paying for...*

WTF??

We have a number of selective secondary private schools in the city and one non selective. So that one non selective takes all the "rich but thick" or SEN that that the others don't

Wow..can't believe you actually wrote that. It is such an gnorant comment.

A non selective school can offer an amazing education for all children, including the super academic or those children that need additional assistance.

Op, I would consider if primary private is needed. I think private school at secondary can offer benefits, non selective will support all children including those who are academic

Hi Op

Obv it was a while ago but I went to a non-selective secondary school. I was sent there due to the poor state choices in my area, including huge issues with bullying and crime.

I really enjoyed it. A huge advantage was smaller class sizes, 20 in a class, and good pastoral care. They still have sets according to ability. I also enjoyed it despite the school not having great facilities. My friends has a mix of wealth level, and there was a variety of academic ability, and SEN pupils were well looked after. Bullying wasn’t a problem at my specific school.

I then went to a selective private sixth form (as my secondary school didn’t have a sixth form at the time - they do now), and I hated it. It was clear they were also very much about stats, grades, students getting uni places etc.

I understand where you’re coming from about primary school. My first state primary school was awful, but we were very lucky to get a place at another state school from year 4. Still bad, but a bit better.

Regarding disadvantages, as other posters have said, holidays are longer at private schools if childcare is an issue for you. Regarding cost, the current fees for the first 2 years of my private school are the same as what i’m currently paying for nursery. But then they do increase for each school year, plus inflation.

If you 've got a bright child they would probably do better in the top sets of a state school

If your child struggles academically I would possibly consider non selective private

If you 've got a bright child they would probably do better in the top sets of a state school

I don't think that's the case at all. Regrettably state schools are struggling due to under funding.

We moved from state primary to non selective prep in yr&6
Geographically we’re quite isolated and there are no selective (primary or secondary) within a reasonable commute, which is a bit of a shame as mine are academically able.
We moved for a variety of reasons. Mostly a job change meant we needed better wraparound care, and my DC had also got a bit lazy in their otherwise lovely state primary and definitely weren’t getting pushed as teachers dealt with post covid issues.
Although it’s a mixed ability year group we’re still confident they are being academically stretched - setting and streaming seems much more active in their new school, extension work is expected of those capable of doing it, and there’s a real pride in achievement (house points, badges etc) for all things but high level academic work is definitely praised and rewarded.
The other big shift has the scale and amount of sport - which is a mixed blessing. My DC are pretty sporty, DS in particular. We need to watch that the school’s ‘find every child’s talents and encourage that’ ethos doesn’t mean he sees himself as a ‘sporty’ kid and stops trying at the academics so much, it’s a subtle distinction but one I think you’re more likely to get in non selective schools.

Looking at the exam results of our local non selective privates compared to our local state,.there's no way I would send a bright child to a any of our non selective privates. And that's borne out by the decisions of friends around me - all similar levels of wealth.

We've had a look at five different private schools for our daughter and this has included non-selectives. The quality of provision has varied widely and there were a number of schools that definitely weren’t worth the fees. I’d arrange tours asap then go with your gut feeling.

@MariaVT65 many tx! U mentioned u went to another state (but better) from yr 4. Did u still have a hard time with class size, disruption etc? Looking bad, if parents were slightly stretched, would u still as a child have wanted to go private non selective, or would state have still been fine?
My DD is resilient but sensitive. Her teachers do more crowd control less study. Yr 3 onwards, she will be destined to go to a "good fisted rated school - oak hill academy).
If labour gets elected fees rises and I'll be slightly stretched financially, but I'd do that if it gives my dd a whole lot of confidence happiness and great opportunity to be better academically- none that our local state schools can offer atm.
Then I could move to twickenham but the rental fee increase for me (800£) = half the fee of private

What would u have wanted or done?

The 20% isn’t what would get added on to fees though, is it? It’s what the schools would be charged. So, given that they can claim some of the vat back (not on some of the big expenses like teacher salaries), isn’t it likely that the increase in fees would be less than 20%?

Don't forget another option is state plus spend money on tutoring and extra curriculars.