My child doesn’t have any friends really - just about to start Year 5

[WhyNF]

Age 9, just about to start Y5.

They mixed the classes up and the children were asked to write down 3 names on a piece of paper of who they most wanted in their class for Y5.

It was the talk of the class whatsapp after it’d been done, trying to find out who’d chosen who. My DDs name never came up as chosen but I didn’t think anything of it.

Then the classes where announced and it appeared DD was not with anyone she’d put on her list. I politely asked the teacher the next time I saw her and she confirmed that nobody had listed DD to be in their class.

I am gutted.

I am being positive to DD about it, but I’m desperately worried. How can you get to 9 and not have friends? Or at least people who want you in their class?

She’s lovely, has no behaviour issues according to her teacher, is “smiley” and contributes to group work well. She’s been put with the same teacher for Year 5 along with 3 boys from her class (there’s 3 classes per year, but most of the children from DDs class are in one class with another teacher with maybe 9 or so in the other class). DD insists she has friends but hasn’t been invited to a single birthday party since before covid. I hosted a party for her and let her choose 9 girls and 4 boys from her class to invite, but none have invited her back (I don’t invite to get back obviously but these are children she insists are her friends). Teacher says she’s never alone at lunchtime or playtime (she does playtime duty 2x a week) which is what all previous teachers have said and it doesn't appear from talking to DD that she's spending time alone.

DD is worried about Y5. Anything I can do to reassure her? It’s dominating the holidays as all I’m hearing is “What happens if I don’t talk to anyone though?” and keeps telling me she doesn’t want to go to school now. Even ExH – DDs dad – who usually stays out of matters to do with school says it’s worrying that she’s with no-one she chose and that no-one chose her.

Is this normal? Will she be ok? She used to love school and come out saying she’d played with the people she put on her list and the 13 she chose she often mentions she’s played with or spoken to.

Regardless of whether she was on anyone’s list she should be with at least one person from her own list. It’s not fair that she’s not with anyone she chose.

I’m sorry.

A lot changes in year 5 and 6 - she may find her tribe in her new class.

@LittleBearPad I mean I get it, if the class whatsapp is anything to go by some children tried to put down 5 or 6 or more names, and a lot of the names came up repeatedly. The headteacher said she also considered the number of SN, ability of each pupil and who they work well with in class so I don't blame them. Because if they'd chosen just one from DDs list then that child would then also be with no-one they chose if that makes sense.

I think your DD is probably popular but not an alpha child who everyone tries to pick. That doesn't mean she has no friends. She's probably someone everyone quietly likes or doesn't dislike. Id actually just focus on the opportunity to make new friends.. the DC change so much at this age.

It sounds like your DD has friends but is not in anyone’s “top 3” which is a little hurtful, I know, but is not the same as not having any friends. She has always had people to play with and has not been lonely. As a pp says the same few “alpha” children may have been named multiple times.

TBH being in an all new class may be the best thing for her. Maybe she will find people she clicks with better and who place her more highly? Does she know any of her new class from cross year lessons like sport?

The whole list thing has unsettled you all, whereas if the school had just done a split without consultation your perception would probably reflect how you open your post - she is happy smiley and plays with other kids at break.

My dc will be starting year 4. He acquired one best friend in the last months of year 3. Before then he very much floated across groups. There's not been many party invites, not aware of whether there are parties happening. But there's no indication of problems or lack of popularity

I'd try not to worry and would reassure your daughter she will be able to make friends. Lots of kids will be feeling the same. Maybe be bold and try to befriend other parents in the class so you can have some out-of-school meet ups. I think parental friendships helps with party invites etc.

Your DD sounds fab - well liked by everyone and able to make the best of things. Don't dwell on it Op & certainly don't make a big deal out of it with her. She'll be fine & make more friends. She'll find her tribe eventually and until then, allow her to enjoy all her friendship groups.

Totally unfair that she didn't get anyone from her list. Can you ask to move her to the other class?

What about friends outside of school? Does she like ponies? Pony Club was brillant for my daughter making friends at that age. Years later, they are still her closest friends.

The school should should put her to the class with the person who selected her. If nobody selected her that should be a signal for the school that she needs help with social skills.

I completely understand why you are worried. It seems harsh to not put her with anyone on her list. However there's a chance it could work out well and be an opportunity to make new friends. There may be other children she doesn't know well who she has more in common with. Plus presumably they are all together at breaktime. Hopefully it works out for her.

I'd say parties in Y5 are few and DC just invite friends over. I'd do some of that in Sept. I too think it might end up being a really positive thing

Something similar happened to one of my dcs. Turned out to be brilliant. In the new class, she made a bunch of new friends who she hadn't been in the same class with before. She's now at university and the still sees some of the group regularly despite being at different secondary schools.

This was my DD’s experience too. She was well liked in the class, but just hadn’t found “her” tribe. She did so later on and has been fine - in fact, the whole thing about not needing/being reliant on a “best friend” has actually been good for her, I think.

I'd ask if she can change class (if that's what she wants).

I wouldn't worry too much, I had no best friends all through primary school and wasn't particularly attached to anyone. I just felt happy to rub along with kids at school and play out at home but that I didn't particularly want or need friends as such. I changed primary school (not because of that, we moved house) in Y6 and made friends at the new school, and a best friend eventually at secondary school. I still didn't really find "my tribe" until sixth form and university.

Does she get chance to make friends outside of school with people who share her interests?

She sounds like a lovely child who everyone likes but just didn't make their top 3, lots of best friends at Primary are because the parents are friends or they know each other outside of school. She'll find her own tribe at Secondary.

I wouldnt be worried, mixing her up in another class might be great and may have been done on purpose as she'll get to know children she doesnt really know yet and may find a beat friend there.

Hopefully it will be the best thing for your DD as she'll find her 'group'
She sounds lovely, everyone's friend but no one's BFF which is a really good place to be within a class as she doesn't rely on 1/2 other people. But it can be a disadvantage when these 'lists' are done.

Also it does annoy me when class mix ups are done and certain groups of children/needs are prioritised over others. All dc deserve the same surely?

Why are a group of adults gossiping about who’s been picked and who’s the most popular? Why are the children’s lists being discussed in this way? Sounds infantile and toxic.
A discussion about which new class they’re in is fine but this sounds awful.
I presume you’ve not shared any of this info with your DD.

She invited 13 people to her birthday party and not a single one invited her back over the year?!

^ This. Which actually means she's a lovely child who everyone likes, which in turn means she'll have no problem making new friends. I do think her teachers have been insensitive though, and you should enlist their support to keep an eye on her.

This is a typical technique that school counselors use to determine friendship groups, alpha students, loners, etc. in a classroom. I used it myself, and shared the results with the teachers -- but never with the parents! What's App groups provide parents with too much time on their hands the opportunity to relive their childhood school days.
It sounds like your daughter would be classified as "self-reliant", fitting in with many groups but not the center of any. That is not a bad thing unless you make it so. She will eventually find a "bestie" but she may be the kind of person who is more family-oriented than friendship groups. In the meantime, nurture her self reliance. Encourage activities and hobbies that interest her, instead of popular ones where girls gather. A child who learns to occupy themselves and enjoy his/her own company strengthens their mental health.

@minipie Apart from the 3 boys from her previous class no, because they don't do cross class anything. They only set across the year groups for things like Maths from Year 5 onwards.

@XelaM She does Brownies outside of school and has friends there but none are at her school. I can't move the night to one girls from school might be at as I'm a single parent and thats the only night I don't work.

She swims at the weekend but is a very low stage - Stage 3. Some of her classmates and friends don't do learn to swim anymore.

@cptartapp Of those 13 I know 5 had parties and DD wasn't invited back, not sure about the others as their parents aren't on any kind of social media.

Did you have any inkling prior to this that she struggles socially? Does she talk about playing with certain children in the playground?

Any SEN? The social demands of junior school get more and more complex the older they get. I could see my daughter struggling to keep up and struggling to make firm friends around year 3-4. It confirmed a lot of my suspicions that she was autistic (diagnosed at 9).

I agree with @Smartiepants79 that the WhatsApp discussions around the mixing up of classes and who picked who is pretty pathetic. My kids attend a large primary who mix classes in years 2 and 5 and there’s NEVER been any discussion of that type on WhatsApp. No need.

Thanks everyone very reassuring.

She does After School Club 3 nights a week as I'm a single parent and need the childcare. Does Brownies 1 night a week and I can't change that as the other night is Friday and there's no local Friday night groups, there's no-one from her school at her Brownies - most seem to do Scouts rather than GG and those that do GGs seem to be at another group out of town on a night I work.

She swims but is still stage 3 (just moved up) and some of her school friends seem to have finished learn to swim or be in the development squad.

@Jellycats4life There is SN at play I think but school disagree.

She says she plays with a lot of children, is never alone and her teachers have always confirmed this. She lists 5 or 6 names regularly but was keen to invite all 13 to her party and I have heard those names before when she's mentioned them.