My child doesn’t have any friends really - just about to start Year 5

[WhyNF]

Age 9, just about to start Y5.

They mixed the classes up and the children were asked to write down 3 names on a piece of paper of who they most wanted in their class for Y5.

It was the talk of the class whatsapp after it’d been done, trying to find out who’d chosen who. My DDs name never came up as chosen but I didn’t think anything of it.

Then the classes where announced and it appeared DD was not with anyone she’d put on her list. I politely asked the teacher the next time I saw her and she confirmed that nobody had listed DD to be in their class.

I am gutted.

I am being positive to DD about it, but I’m desperately worried. How can you get to 9 and not have friends? Or at least people who want you in their class?

She’s lovely, has no behaviour issues according to her teacher, is “smiley” and contributes to group work well. She’s been put with the same teacher for Year 5 along with 3 boys from her class (there’s 3 classes per year, but most of the children from DDs class are in one class with another teacher with maybe 9 or so in the other class). DD insists she has friends but hasn’t been invited to a single birthday party since before covid. I hosted a party for her and let her choose 9 girls and 4 boys from her class to invite, but none have invited her back (I don’t invite to get back obviously but these are children she insists are her friends). Teacher says she’s never alone at lunchtime or playtime (she does playtime duty 2x a week) which is what all previous teachers have said and it doesn't appear from talking to DD that she's spending time alone.

DD is worried about Y5. Anything I can do to reassure her? It’s dominating the holidays as all I’m hearing is “What happens if I don’t talk to anyone though?” and keeps telling me she doesn’t want to go to school now. Even ExH – DDs dad – who usually stays out of matters to do with school says it’s worrying that she’s with no-one she chose and that no-one chose her.

Is this normal? Will she be ok? She used to love school and come out saying she’d played with the people she put on her list and the 13 she chose she often mentions she’s played with or spoken to.

As a teacher l often found children picked others for their party that they didn't necessarily always play with. Its like the parent asked and the first dc that came to mind were the outgoing, leader type children. But in actual fact it was other children like your dd that they played with everyday. I absolutely hate that parents on a WhatsApp group were chattering about this and it's very unwise of the school to cause this sort of situation.
Are you friends with any parents as sometimes dc are friends as it suits the parents?
Can you look to see if there is a new activity she could do outside school eg drama club/ athletics etc which would widen her circle.
Hopefully when school reopens all this will blow over and life will return to normal. I often see friendships change towards the end of Primary as dc really find their tribe. I hope all turns out well.

School disagreed with my daughter too. I think we have a long way to go before high masking, well behaved girls have their neurodivergence “seen” by schools.

It’s something for you to consider anyway. I recommend doing some research into how autism presents in girls if that’s what you suspect. That’s what I had to do, and then a lot of things started to make sense.

@junebirthdaygirl She does Brownies with no-one from her school and loves it, I can't fit anything else in unless it's a Friday as I'm a single parent.

She swims on Weekends but her dad pays for it and we take it in turns to take her, so I can't stop that or change it for something else.

As a practical suggestion, I would ask on the what's app group who is in her new class, and arrange play dates with individual children, or a couple if that's easier. Not a large group. You don't usually get reciprocal invites from parties, but small play dates will help her make new friends and usually get an invite back for politeness.

@hlr1987 It's all boys from her class in the new class. I expect I'll be added to the classes Facebook or Whatsapp once the year has started.

Stage 3...in Open AirPool? @WhyNF

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing No it's the Stage 3 Swim England Learn to Swim, it's at a local leisure centre.

It very much depends when you signed her up as opposed to when other parents signed kids up. Some kids start stage one at the of 4.
Does your pool do crash courses? This is the best way to go faster

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing Signed up at the same time as all the others, it's just DD isn't picking it up very quick.

They do crash courses in the weeks of the holidays but I'm a single parent and work so I can never take DD to them, ExH doesn't see her in the week.

I’d ask those mums if one’s been set up yet.

Don’t move brownies as she’s happy there.

Her school do seem to have dropped the ball on the list three friends thing. It’s perfectly reasonable possible with 30 kids to make sure at least one off a list is in the same class - mine does it and guarantees at least one.

I take my son for 4 weeks (4 crash courses) at 8:30am. We started a year ago and he is stage 3. We take every possible crash course.
With my son earplugs were helpful. He could not articulate why he doesn't want to go under water. Finally, I found out when I started observing him.

I would recommend talking to his teacher where there is a problem. Sometimes it may be stamina. In our Pool, one has to swim 3 times across the pool without stopping to pass stage 3. It is not easy but justifiable requirement as stage 4 is not any longer in learning pool and is in the deep pool.

It was nice of the school to seek children's input before choosing the classes; it was completely unreasonable of parents to discuss children's choices in public!

Agreed. Some parents really do relive their own school days on WhatsApp.

One thing to set up new class groups etc, quite another to debate who’s in which group.

Why the fixation on her swimming level all of a sudden? (I’m talking to other commenters who are recommending crash courses etc, rather than to @WhyNF).

Some kids just aren’t sporty and aren’t going to be great swimmers. Especially if they have undiagnosed SN. My autistic kid isn’t particularly coordinated and also has anxiety and sensory issues around putting his face in the water 🤷‍♀️

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing I can't take her, I start work at 8.30am so she's in holiday club/breakfast club from 7.30am. I cannot take her.

Maybe some other pool where there are afternoln/evening crash courses

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing What part of being a single parent with no help in the week are you not getting? I can't take her to a crash course let alone afford it, this is the only leisure centre within a 20 miles radius of my house that does swim england courses.

I'm not sure what her swimming level has to with her lack of friends at school anyway.

I agree with @junebirthdaygirl that children can be a bit funny about who they put in their top 3 and tend to go for the popular kids rather than the ones they actually play with - almost as if they're "expected" to do so. In my son's class there was one boy who was on all the boys' lists except 3!

Did you ask the school if she can be with one of the people she listed? This would be fairer I think.
I think this is why the teachers should do the classes themselves without this listing friends stuff. The criteria should be academic, pastoral, gender and SEND. Friendships should be looked at in terms of ensuring there are less clashes rather than making sure everyone has their best friends especially when you consider that they can all play together at break and lunch anyway. The lesson time is for learning. The classes should be designed so that the learning is prioritised. Chatting with your best friend in the lesson does not mean better learning. Social development is about working together with others.

I am very sorry. I am just trying to help with swimming because it reminded me a bit about my son. There are many many single parents in this country including myself.

What helped my son is me making friends with some school mums.

I was trying to help. I didn't have much hope but earplugs for swimmers really help my son who has dispraxia for that matter. Therefore, I wanted to share that solution

Oh bless her, it makes me think of eurovision - we get all upset when we come last but you need to be in the top 10 choices out of 24 entries to get points. So you could have the 11th best song and get no points. She could be choice 4th or 5th behind some louder/obviously popular character but it's turned into her not being listed 😟

I think a new class will give her chance to meet new friends, she doesn't sound lonely and I'm sure will flourish

It's very unusualfor year 5 to be in the squad, stage 3 or 4 up to end of year 6 is fairly normal. Not that swimming is in any way relevant!

I would be concerned about no party invites at all, that suggests more of an issue. Is this the same for play dates/sleep overs etc?

Our school does the list 3 friends thing too, and everyone is guaranteed to be with at least one. Did the teacher discuss with you why dd wasn't placed with any of her choices? Was it an oversight, or have they decided this with purpose and new friends in mind? If not the latter, I would be livid. I would want to know the school have this issue on their radar.

What are the things that make you think SN?

Just as an aside, I'm also shocked parents were discussing kids' choices on the WhatsApp group! I'm no great fan of ours but this would never happen.

I’d look at the class mix up then as a good thing- chance to mingle with more people