Page 2 | Sats year 2. What has happened??

notahappybunny7 · 2023-07-19T04:46:41+00:00

Ok so to be brief my year 2 dd has just got her results. 99 for reading which teacher assessment took to 100 to pass. However my dd has always been one of the best readers, flew through reception, ended in turquoise band, the school in year one put the whole class back to green band so all learning the same sounds, wasn’t happy about this but what can you do? Phonics screening was 39 and always exceeding at literacy till this.

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SamPoodle123 · 19/07/2023 11:01

I would say do not rely on only the school. Make sure she is reading at home and has a love for reading. This is where my kids started to really take off with their reading. We were always relaxed about it, but providing them with books to read and suddenly the both found books the loved and reading took off. If your dc can read fluently, then get them reading for pleasure.

Vallmo47 · 19/07/2023 11:02

Just wanted to say that I think your child is doing great. I must admit I raised an eyebrow when you said you’ve already had a tutor involved - she’s so young! Spend time with your child reading for fun, ask a couple questions to see what they’ve taken in, but make learning fun. :) I’ve got two kids, one going into his GCSE year in September and one who has just sat her SATS. The pressure on both to achieve is enormous, they are just children! My daughter was around the same level as yours in year 2 and went on to get greater depth on 2/3 of her SATS and passing all of them. I’d caution you to put too much emphasis on her scores, kids mature at different times and I’ve seen kids burn out and d dig their heels in because their well meaning parents were too pushy.
In short: enjoy a couple more years before the pressure ramps up!

Original poster

notahappybunny7 · 19/07/2023 11:11

She is on lime book band. Comprehension I think is very good, an independent tutor I got to assess her said she scored 100% in a year 3 piece of work at the beginning of year 2. I only did that as I didn’t feel I was getting accurate feedback from year 1 teachers(they was 2 of them, very different teaching styles)
current teacher says she guesses her answers, I don’t agree. Reading we do at home, I ask questions and she seems to have a good understanding. Also current teacher has roles outside the classroom it within the school and won’t be teaching next year, just concentrating on those. I think the teacher has been overstretched this year.

OP posts:

Blueash · 19/07/2023 11:15

Unfortunately the teacher is likely to leave the children that can cope and spend time with the struggling readers (they want to get most of them to a given standard). Find some books she really likes is about the best advice anyone can give you. Make sure you read aloud to her every day. Also does she see you reading? Children will tend to learn what they live and if the adults around her don't read then she might not develop the habit. I read all the time - so does my mother so it was no surprise that my own children read early.

JJJSchmidt · 19/07/2023 11:16

Some early readers do peak early when they actually have a more average ability, it's just that being an early reader makes Yr and y1 much easier, but by y2 they all even out a bit more. It no one's 'fault' and absolutely fine for your dd to be an average acheiver

Sherrystrull · 19/07/2023 11:29

notahappybunny7 · 19/07/2023 11:11

She is on lime book band. Comprehension I think is very good, an independent tutor I got to assess her said she scored 100% in a year 3 piece of work at the beginning of year 2. I only did that as I didn’t feel I was getting accurate feedback from year 1 teachers(they was 2 of them, very different teaching styles)
current teacher says she guesses her answers, I don’t agree. Reading we do at home, I ask questions and she seems to have a good understanding. Also current teacher has roles outside the classroom it within the school and won’t be teaching next year, just concentrating on those. I think the teacher has been overstretched this year.

Lime is what we would expect our GD readers to be on. So 99 would seem a low score for a lime reader. I think my suggestion would be to keep reading lots, focusing on asking questions. She may well guess answers, some children do even if they are excellent readers. This is why teacher assessment is used rather than the raw scaled score to show attainment level. My advice would be to focus on reading at length, asking questions as you go and encouraging a high level of independence. When working with the tutor, did the tutor guide her through everything? This is why she may have struggled with working completely independently in the sats papers.

waterst · 19/07/2023 11:33

newmum1976 · 19/07/2023 08:23

To get a scaled score of 99, she scored 23 or 24 out of 40. You could do some past papers to see what the issue is. It may be there is too much for her to read, or she doesn’t understand the inference questions.

This is what I'd do. Get her to do some past papers and you'll see where the problem is

BeautifulDisaster675 · 19/07/2023 11:49

Funnily enough my dc had exactly the same score on reading SAT.
I knew it was 'an error' so queried it. No real explanation. So I got dc to redo the test. And they got at least 7 marks more to get 106. Which is more like the national average mark.
Yes maybe dc was tired and the test was more vague than I expected but I 100% knew that result wasn't right.
The tests aren't times so could be dc didn't have enough time or gave up. But we didn't spend long at home. ?
So either another child was reported for my dc. Or it was intentional to improve the school progress score.
And also dc had done 2 practise papers and had got over these marks.
Personally I feel the schools should have to show them example papers.
With dc1 she didn't do well in ks1 maths. 102 then got 113 at ks2. So they had underestimated her.
Dc2 we did a practise maths too and dc2 got 111 at ks1. It's about checking they have the concentration to finish the papers. And the q aren't quite what they get at school.

Op you need to think whether the 99 is accurate. I don't think it affects the pupil that much. But pupils are definitely targeted and given crash extra sessions for ks2 SATs depending on school. And ours targeted the top kids to push them to greater depth.

My dc2 has also been kept on the scheme and made to read books several times which has likely negatively affected their results.
Have to say the school wasn't great for dc1 but reading side had got so much worse for dc2 with all these initiatives.
They had dc2 on dark red and dark blue books and then back down to lime! The dark red are for y5!
The pass mark is 100 but as with ks2 says the 50th percentile is maybe 103-106.

arethereanyleftatall · 19/07/2023 12:07

A child exceeding at reception doesn't really mean that's where there going to end up. That's the problem with getting too excited by it, as they all develop so totally differently, and the age makes a huge difference at that age. An older child can be 20 % older than the youngest in the year for example, so one would assume if the older kids aren't exceeding, then somethings amiss.

Let her read for pleasure. That's it. She's what - 7?!? Far far too young to be talking about tutors and extra homework. Support sure, but maybe accept who your child is, not who you want them to be.

waterst · 19/07/2023 12:29

arethereanyleftatall · 19/07/2023 12:07

A child exceeding at reception doesn't really mean that's where there going to end up. That's the problem with getting too excited by it, as they all develop so totally differently, and the age makes a huge difference at that age. An older child can be 20 % older than the youngest in the year for example, so one would assume if the older kids aren't exceeding, then somethings amiss.

Let her read for pleasure. That's it. She's what - 7?!? Far far too young to be talking about tutors and extra homework. Support sure, but maybe accept who your child is, not who you want them to be.

I think it would be quite rare for the children exceeding in reception to suddenly stagnate and become average. The OP's child is in y2 anyway.

The group of children in DD's class who were the most able from the beginning - flying through the book bands, top table etc in year 1/2 were the exact same group who passed the 11 plus. There was one girl who moved up to this group midway through primary, but nobody went the other way.

TeenDivided · 19/07/2023 12:59

Is it possible she performs better at home or in a quiet 1-1 environment than at school which is busy and has more distractions?
School can only grade on what they have seen themselves consistently.

Sherrystrull · 19/07/2023 13:30

arethereanyleftatall · 19/07/2023 12:07

A child exceeding at reception doesn't really mean that's where there going to end up. That's the problem with getting too excited by it, as they all develop so totally differently, and the age makes a huge difference at that age. An older child can be 20 % older than the youngest in the year for example, so one would assume if the older kids aren't exceeding, then somethings amiss.

Let her read for pleasure. That's it. She's what - 7?!? Far far too young to be talking about tutors and extra homework. Support sure, but maybe accept who your child is, not who you want them to be.

This is absolutely true. Children who exceed in reception are often articulate, confident and then in KS1 when the expectations change settle to more average achievement. It happens all the time.

SummerInSun · 19/07/2023 13:51

In terms of what to do, our DC's school says they should be ready by out loud to you every day (or almost every day) for 15 minutes, and you should be asking them questions both about the story and the grammar. Eg, why do you think he did that? What do you think she will do next? How would you feel if you were that character? Can you find two adjectives on that page? What are the proper nouns? Etc

SummerInSun · 19/07/2023 13:52

Oh - and you should be reading to the Dc each day too, a book that's above the level they could read to themselves, and asking the same sorts of questions and also explain and words you think they don't know.

roses2 · 19/07/2023 14:07

Download practise papers from the gov website and get her to practise answering exam style questions. Do it with her so you can see where she is going wrong.

DS has always been middle band. I practised sats papers with him 1 month before and he scored 50 out of 50 on maths because I taught him how to answer correctly ie show workings, read the question twice to make sure he understood etc

Sb123455 · 19/07/2023 14:31

BeautifulDisaster675 · 19/07/2023 11:49

Funnily enough my dc had exactly the same score on reading SAT.
I knew it was 'an error' so queried it. No real explanation. So I got dc to redo the test. And they got at least 7 marks more to get 106. Which is more like the national average mark.
Yes maybe dc was tired and the test was more vague than I expected but I 100% knew that result wasn't right.
The tests aren't times so could be dc didn't have enough time or gave up. But we didn't spend long at home. ?
So either another child was reported for my dc. Or it was intentional to improve the school progress score.
And also dc had done 2 practise papers and had got over these marks.
Personally I feel the schools should have to show them example papers.
With dc1 she didn't do well in ks1 maths. 102 then got 113 at ks2. So they had underestimated her.
Dc2 we did a practise maths too and dc2 got 111 at ks1. It's about checking they have the concentration to finish the papers. And the q aren't quite what they get at school.

Op you need to think whether the 99 is accurate. I don't think it affects the pupil that much. But pupils are definitely targeted and given crash extra sessions for ks2 SATs depending on school. And ours targeted the top kids to push them to greater depth.

My dc2 has also been kept on the scheme and made to read books several times which has likely negatively affected their results.
Have to say the school wasn't great for dc1 but reading side had got so much worse for dc2 with all these initiatives.
They had dc2 on dark red and dark blue books and then back down to lime! The dark red are for y5!
The pass mark is 100 but as with ks2 says the 50th percentile is maybe 103-106.

How do you know it’s an error? Scoring 7 more marks doesn’t necessarily mean a huge difference - you could say that many kids may score higher at home with their parents looking over them wanting them to do better?

I say this as a mum of a child who does PIRA/PUMA instead and usually does very well but scores went down in last term. I definitely didn’t assume it was an error?! Just bad day/harder stuff they found more difficult compared to others etc?

Original poster

notahappybunny7 · 19/07/2023 16:44

Ok update, spoke to daughters teacher and had a look at her books,
all her works seems to be done independently and correctly! Teachers says probably had a bad day to get the 99 , was 102 maths.
she said can’t give greater depth as she isn’t discussing books properly in guided reading?

OP posts:

BeautifulDisaster675 · 19/07/2023 17:00

Because it was the same paper.
And I knew the result wasn't right.if anything more distracting at home. Oh and paper 1 got the sort of marks I was expecting. Actually I marked very harshly as I didn't accept any guessing on the ticking of boxes.
The diff in understanding between those scores too is quite big.

I'm pretty skilled at predicting lol.
For my eldest says ks2
I predicted 113 M, 114 spag, 114 R.
Got 113m, 120spag and 110 R - unfinished and usually hard paper.
I was closer than the
school predictions: 106m, 112spag, 111/112reading
However the maths scale and reading was lower this year so ..? I do find the ks2 reading mark 'off' but assume that is due to not finishing. She was 38 instead of usually getting at least 41/50
Anyway we will focus on reading so can stretch towards exceeding.
Not passing ks1 says for reading ours my dc in bottom 20% for reading so that was clearly incorrect...

Original poster

notahappybunny7 · 19/07/2023 20:16

as some of her friends got gd, I was worried she’d be placed in a lower set come year 3, however teacher said they won’t be grouped by ability in year 3, is anyone else aware of this? I thought they were grouped in the juniors.

OP posts:

Sherrystrull · 19/07/2023 21:15

notahappybunny7 · 19/07/2023 20:16

as some of her friends got gd, I was worried she’d be placed in a lower set come year 3, however teacher said they won’t be grouped by ability in year 3, is anyone else aware of this? I thought they were grouped in the juniors.

Setting is very much discouraged now, particularly in English.

Original poster

notahappybunny7 · 19/07/2023 21:28

Oh really? Good to hear, teacher mentioned a particular method, can’t remember what it was called. For example, in maths, some kids might be good at using money but not shapes, that was an example she used.

OP posts:

BeautifulDisaster675 · 19/07/2023 22:22

Maybe also have a go at the sats maths papers. As any practise helps. It maybe that your dc just needs more practise. We tend to use cgp books as well for maths.

Dolphinnoises · 20/07/2023 07:32

You asked for practical suggestions: I asked what books she was reading at home? I’d add to that by asking what books you are reading to her?

Dolphinnoises · 20/07/2023 07:34

notahappybunny7 · 19/07/2023 21:28

Oh really? Good to hear, teacher mentioned a particular method, can’t remember what it was called. For example, in maths, some kids might be good at using money but not shapes, that was an example she used.

Yes there are discreet skills in Maths, my eldest has dyscalculia related to dyspraxia for sind elements to Maths but not others so for us it’s very stark. Which areas of Maths are the issue?

Dolphinnoises · 20/07/2023 07:34

discrete! Bloody phone…