Room at school but I need to meet with head and SENCo first?

[kak808]

I’m looking at moving schools and the council confirmed that there is space for both of my children. I rang up the school because I’d emailed a couple of days ago and received no response. They said they want me to meet with the head and the SENCo first because one of the year groups is already very “complex.” I had mentioned that my child says some SEN needs, but doesn’t have an ECHP.

This leads me to 2 questions: 1) They can’t refuse us the spot over this, correct? And 2) Is this a bad sign? Do I not want my SEN child to join a “complex” situation?

Hopefully it's largely so that they can plan effectively for your child's needs. If there's more than one class in the year group, and above average SEN needs in both, it may make sense for them to try and work out which class your child will fit into most easily.

It's appropriate for them to do that for child with SEN, and actually any child really who is doing an in year transfer. They will want to find out more about how your child can be supported. They will also consider the dynamics of a class and whether another child coming into the class would be detrimental to the education of others.
Do you know if there is space in the class?

Hopefully you’re right. I said “I want to confirm there’s space” and she said “we want you to meet with the head and SENCo first.” It made it sound like they would meet us and then decide if there was space. But it doesn’t work that way, correct? Hopefully it was just worded awkwardly.

There is space. Can they refuse it based on this meeting? I suppose I could see them recommending against her joining if they don’t think they could adequately support her, but can they just literally say no if there is a place?

I would meet with them and see the lie of the land in regards to the ‘complex’ class. We had a situation a few years ago with a one form entry primary, where 14 out of the 30 kids (this is 14 that I knew off - there may have been more) has SEN needs. 4 with 121 support, so 5 adults in the class. However the other 10 SEN also had needs that couldn’t be met by the teacher alone (no other TA support as already 5 adults in the class) and as a result, the whole class suffered. I ended up moving schools, as did many others as barely any pf the childrens needs were being met, SEN or not.

The school you are looking at may be evaluating their spans of control. It may be that one additional child with SEN (but no ECHP) will be the breaking point, if they cannot provide enough resource and support in the class given the already complex situation. You may not want your child in that class, if it is already ‘complex’

If the school aren't confident they can cater for your DC's SEN (or if they are already struggling with the students they already have) I really wouldn't fight for a place there.

I would meet with them and establish whether they are just taking a sensible, cautious approach and being extra careful to ensure they can positively support your DC or whether their complex situation is such that the class is already under too much pressure. The latter isn't a good situation for any of the DC, SEN or not.

Of course I wouldn’t want to force her into a school that couldn’t support her — I guess I was just caught off guard! This is the only local school that has space for both of my children and it’s generally very highly regarded so I thought it was a no brainer that I’d move them there. I’ll do the meeting, of course, but this makes things more difficult than I was expecting!

Honestly, they may be trying to put you off.

They can't legally refuse the place though, just because your child has SEN. That would be discrimination.

Go to the meeting, hear them out. Then decide if it sounds a good environment for your child.

Well they might be “trying to put you off”, which is probably illegal btw , but they could also be a well organised school who actually want to meet your child’s needs and make the transfer as smooth as possible. You won’t know until you meet them.

Yeah it wasn’t phrased as “yes she’s welcome and to ease the transition we want to make sure we have this meeting.” It was “You have space, right?” “Well, we’ll need to have a meeting first...” As I said in the original post, it may just not have been communicated well, but I did kind of feel like they were trying to put me off. We’ll see after the meeting I suppose!

No, legally if there is a space, they have to admit you.

They can refuse to admit a child if it can be proven to be to the detriment of the other children (hence other people mentioning this wording). It can't be simply on the grounds of disability.

That said, they is no reason to suggest that's what is happening there. They might be trying to assess the situation, what provision might be needed immediately or if actually the provision needs to be funded through applying for EHCP first.

To put it into context my DS's wonderful mainstream met both my son (complex EHCP) and then me first. They had grave concerns they were able to meet need. I asked them to keep an open mind and it was heading to tribunal anyway.

Ultimately they supported my DS being granted a place at tribunal but asked gor a delayed start date to recruit a new staff member to meet provision. This was granted at tribunal.

It might well be they are checking whether they can meet need, or whether they can only meet need with the appropriate EHCP, or something along those lines

Thank you, this makes sense.

To be very honest i worry more about a school that blindly offered a child with some SEN a space without finding out more information.

If your child has an SEND need that requires more than just high-quality teaching (I.E. more than just what a neuro-typical child needs), you need an EHCP.

Think of it as 2 way conversation find out what they can offer your child with sen - some schools are great, but you may want to be cautious moving a child to the school because they have space- what is the issue with the class, what support does your child currently have/need, can they provide. If it isn't suitable where does that leave you - fair access panel, appeal for another school. Is it a junior class that has a pan of 30, but will take extra children in juniors, in which case, they can say no, if likely to negatively impact the class, as they would be over pan and force you to appeal.

At her current school DD gets preferential seating (i.e. sits in the front of the class) and receives help packing her bag because she was leaving homework bits at school every. single. day. She also pets the therapy dog once a week. School has insisted she doesn’t need an EHCP.

Yes this was in the back of my mind. A switched on SENCO and head might well have concerns that a child with some SEN doesn't have an EHCP and check why the school move.

That said DD has some SN and no need for an EHCP so it does happen (she does have quite a bit of exam adaptations thought)

I would listen very carefully to what they’re trying to say to you.
I currently teach in a class that is ‘complex’. It has very high levels of SEN already and is very challenging. Depending on the need of any new child I would be very wary of bringing another child with SEN into it. It could be extremely detrimental to that child and all the others already there.
They cannot refuse to take your DD but if it was me I’d be checking very carefully that it was going to be a positive move for my child.

If that is genuinely all she needs then it shouldn't be a problem unless 3 other children have BBC similar needs ( a teacher can probably help pack one bag but multiple would take some time) although not all schools have a therapy dog. Again my DD sits at the front of the class on her own table, another child with SeN needs to sit at the front but can be on a normal table BUT here's the rub, the nature of their Sen means they set each other off so they sit either end of the front if that makes sense. Add a third child and I can see that would be an issue.

Have very similar needs even

They can refuse you if they can justify how it will have a detrimental effect on other SEN children currently enrolled. For example, by having to share a LSA due to no funding. They do have to make reasonable adjustments though and have to have a solid case as to why it isn't in the best interests of either child.

If a place is offered straight away, there's no guarantee the parent will even respond to it - but they're then tied for around a month before an offer can be withdrawn. Or they accept it and nothing more is heard from them - or the kid turns up at the door in September/October/next March for a place they thought was being held open indefinitely. (Had one do that three years after the original offer: they seemed surprised there wasn't an empty desk waiting for all those years).

It's better to go in, decide yes, you'd like to be offered a place and then it's not wasted when it could have gone to somebody else - and in your particular case, you don't find out by day 3 that there is no way your child's needs can be met by them, however hard they try.

Thank you. I will definitely listen to what they have to say. Unfortunately we don’t have many options as no other schools nearby have spots available. We could go on a wait list, but for them both to get in anywhere would be a struggle.

For background, they’re currently at an independent school and happy and doing quite well (even my SEN DD, but that took a while!). However, we have had a change in circumstances and can no longer afford it. Neither of them want to leave, so we need to make this as simple and seamless as possible. If it doesn’t seem like it’ll be a good fit for DD, I think the only option is to go back and beg the current school for a bigger bursary, but I don’t think that’s sustainable in the long run.

This makes sense — thank you.