Praying in C of E primaries?

[sherby]

If anybody has a DC going to a CofE school can you tell me if they are expected to say prayers during the day?

Or how a CofE school actually differs day to day to a non religious school.

I ask because we are an atheist family but our catchment school and the one DD is most likely to get allocated is CofE.

I think it must depend on the school. Maybe talk to them and find out? I went to a normal village primary school (not C of E). We still sang hymns everyday in assembly, had a christian assembly on Fridays with a bible story and prayers and had 4 plays/special assemblies in the village church ever year. (harvest festival, christmas, easter and leaving ceremony. As far as I know they are still doing this, they at least still have the 4 yearly services in the church as it gets printed in the parish magazine. On the other hand my friend teaches in a C of E school and they are less religious than this and she herself is not christain.

...and it wasn't that long ago either, I am 25 my sister is 6 years younger than me (we all went there) so this was def still going on 8/9 years ago when she left.

I'm kind of dreading sending my little ds to the local c of e primary in a few months. We have brought him up to be open-hearted and self-opinionated and he has no idea about Lords' prayer, Aaaaa-men and wot-not. Heaven, hell d'uh.

Of course I'm aiming to send him to the Non-denom school - oversubscribed and slightly out of my catchment so chances are slim that he'll be placed there - so had to put down C of E choices 2nd and 3rd. Along with the op, I find all the worshipping and prayers out of keeping with our philosophy as a family. I have to say, the non-denom schools seem so busy and friendly in comparison to the C of E schools.

I'm not anti-Christian btw, don't mind a bit of nativity story or harvest festival stuff. Just 'Our father..'

I'm another concientious objector and will have to deal with this next year when DS is old enough for school. While many individuals, schools and organisations with a religious ethos are harmless and indeed do good, I really don't like the special status accorded to superstitions, because so much of so many belief systems is toxic (misogyny, homophobia, creationism, hellfire-and-damnation, genital mutilation of children) that I can't subscribe to the 'oh it won;t hurt them' viewpoint. Because by allowing mythological crap to be peddled, even at its most benign and fluffy level, to children, you're allowing room for the nasty dangerous stuff to be pushed at them too.

'many belief systems is toxic (misogyny, homophobia, creationism, hellfire-and-damnation, genital mutilation of children) that I can't subscribe to the 'oh it won;t hurt them' viewpoint'

I realy don't think you will get this in a Cof E school(or even in a church)!!
The central message is love your neighbour as yourself and treat others as you would like to be treated.
I don't think that Cof E schools turn out born again, evangelical Christians! You will probably find that your DC is not touched by it at all, especially with the home influence.

If the Church of England was remotely effective in brain-washing then I wouldn't be trotting to a 1,000-capacity church every Sunday morning with six elderly spinsters.

At my dd's school they pray in the morning, at Assembly, they have daily hymn practice, prayers before lunch, prayers and hymns before home-time. And lots of relgious education.

I just don't think that children should be taught to practice a faith (rather than learning about it) in a non denominational school.

Exactly, morningpaper! People seem to give a lot of power to the church! I have found that, on the whole, people who were exposed to a lot of religion when young are turned off by it, not the other way around. My father came from a strict Methodist background (church twice on Sunday etc)and he didn't go near a church again until he was in his 50's. I really don't think people have anything to worry about!!

Seeker yes learning about different faiths is good, practicing worship each day not so good.

Half asleep so I will come back to this thread later, must phone schools today!

Im not sure where all the brainwashing stuff has come from but I see it like this.

If your child is CofE then you wouldn't expect him/her to go to school and pray to Allah everyday because that is not what you believe. Well we don't believe in any personal God so I don't expect my child to have to go to school and pray to one. It doesn't matter if 'it wont hurt them', what would be the point in it?

I'm not worried about brainwashing - I realize we're talking about the Church of England here not the Moonies! And if my children grow up to be religious people that's fine - it's up to them. I just don't think that it's appropriate for prayer to form part of children's daily experience in a non denominational state school.

Maybe your DC should be free to make up their own mind sherby. A child of Christians may decide they don't believe in God and a child of atheists may have a belief in God. I don't think you should dictate what they should believe in. It is handy to to have all the information before they make the choice. I have had all 3 DSs christened and taken them to church and they have all rejected it, which is fine by me, I am not going to coerce them. Equally I know of someone who never set foot in a church (parents were very anti)who went by himself and became a vicar.
Children are not just empty vessels to be filled-they are capable of reasoning things out for themselves at an early age.

I'm not dictating what they believe in -the school is! That's my point!

The school is not dictating what they believe (unless you have chosen a church school).State schools have to hold a collective worship everyday. They will, probably,make it clear that you don't have to hold beliefs by saying 'this is what Christians' believe and 'you can make this your prayer if you want to'.
Until we have disestablishmentarianism the Cof E and the state are bound together and so you get laws like the collective worship one.

My DS goes to the local CofE school. I'm a humanist and had some reservations at first but tbh I haven't found anything objectionable yet. DS doesn't seem affected by any praying or collective acts of worship that go on, he hasn't mentioned it to me anyway. He looked blank when I mentioned god and jesus the other day, it seems he doesn't know who they are, so either they are not brainwashing him very well or he's just not paying any attention

I have to agree with morningpaper and also with AbbeyA, the kind of religious education that these CofE schools probably teach is just the good bits really. I have no worries that DS will come to any harm or brainwashing tbh. But he will spend his school days in a really good environment with a strong community ethos, being tought to respect others and treat others with kindness and love. This can't be a bad thing!

Whether or not you actually believe in any God, a collective act of worship won't do any harm, to either children or adults, it just makes you stop for a minute, in an otherwise busy hectic life, and thust think. Nothing wrong with being thankful for what you have, which is what the collective acts of worship are all about. It won't do any harm, you can get something out of it whether or not you believe in a God.

I'm sorry Abby, but my experience of a non denominational state primary is different. My children have both been taught elements of Christianity as fact, while being taught about other religions in terms of "this is what Bhuddists, Hindus, Muslims etc believe...."

And anyway, if you say to a 5 year old "this is where you can pray if you want to" and the Head folds his hands, bows his head and prays, the chances are that the 5 year old will too!

I'm also confident that if I talk to DS lots about what different people believe in and that everyone has the right to believe in something that other people may just regard as a story and vica versa, that he will grow up being able to make his own informed choices about what he does and doesn't believe in.

I do think tohugh, that if it weren't for CofE primary schools, religion would pretty much dry up in this country. I guess the reason the CofE schools are mostly primary rather than secondary is because they are more impressionable at this age. BUT the local catchment school is CofE, there's nothing I can do about that, so DS goes there and I'm not worried tbh. I know home is more important that school in affecting what people grow up believing in.

Overmydeadbody, I broadly agree with your last post. For example I would have no problem at all with my children pausing for a while and perhaps giving thanks for having food to eat that day or loving families or stopping for a minute to think of those in unfortunate circumstances. It is when these thanks are aimed at a named God or Jesus Christ that I start to have a problem.

If you are talking about prayer in a pausing and having a couple of minutes of reflection type way I am all for it.

seeker if your DCs are taught something as fact, you still have the upper hand in being able to tell your kids that actually it isn't fact. You have far more influence over them that the school.

I get your point sherby but if the term God or Jesus mean nothing to the child (as in my DS's case) it doesn't matter that that may be mentioned in the prayer, I imagine it to just wooosh right over the top of his head!

I think if I made it into an issue or problem then DS would suddenly sit up and start to notice it more, as his attention would be drawn to it. By not making it into abig deal I'm happy to keep thinking it wooshes over his head. If I started to worry that brainwashing was happening I would find another school for him tbh.

He doesn't go to school on the rare days they go to church for services, like at christmas and Easter though. I don't think a cold big church is a place for a 5 yr old.

I don't think a cold big church is a place for a 5 yr old.

What does that mean? It's just a building where people go to pray. Why the negative association?

All this 'sinister' talk makes the church of England sound remarkably powerful!

Perhaps I should say that I supply teach and so I go into lots of different schools and sit through a lot of assemblies! I do a whole range of Primary schools- from a Cof E school where I have taken the class off to a full blown communion service in church, to non denominational ones.
I have only once felt very uncomfortable, and that was years ago when I was teaching full time in a church school,when a visiting American, evangelical, born again Christian came to talk in assembly and gave the children the whole works about how gory a crucifixion would be and also that his daughter had 'given herself to Jesus' aged 3yrs!! I think that we were supposed to follow it up in the classroom but I was very young and felt quite unable to handle it so didn't refer to it at all but told them to get their Maths books out!
I have not been into a school that doesn't have hymns, moral stories and prayers of some sort. Some will teach it as fact, some won't. I would say seeker,that even in a non denominational you should ask about assemblies and RE teaching before you send your DC, if it is a subject that you feel strongly about.

Sorry-I really should proof read-I hope people will put in my missing words.

But why are they taught that in the first place? Why do I have to unteach them? It's a non denomational school!