Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

Praying in C of E primaries?

91 replies

sherby · 20/02/2008 21:36

If anybody has a DC going to a CofE school can you tell me if they are expected to say prayers during the day?

Or how a CofE school actually differs day to day to a non religious school.

I ask because we are an atheist family but our catchment school and the one DD is most likely to get allocated is CofE.

OP posts:
Original poster
sherby · 20/02/2008 22:04

coastalmum, is your school at CofE one

I wonder if there is any grounds for applying for a out of catchment place on religious/non religious grounds?

I don't want to have to opt her out, I just want her to go to school and not have to worship anybody but her teachers

OP posts:
redadmiral · 20/02/2008 22:05

Sorry. I thought maybe my first post hadn't been very clear, and that it just seemed I'd given a multifaith RE lesson. Like you, I like to encourage them to question theories and think for themselves.

coastalmum · 20/02/2008 22:06

Yes Sherby my dc school is CofE.

If you contact the coucils education dept, they should be able to advise you on how to appeal for a non-religious school and the likihood of winning the appeal.

redadmiral · 20/02/2008 22:07

Good idea sherby, but I bet it's been thought of before if the other school is very oversubscribed

Nothing more devious than parents with school applications coming up!

coastalmum · 20/02/2008 22:07

sorry councils not coucils

bb99 · 20/02/2008 22:08

Don't worry - free thinking is allowed. I work in a C of E school and we don't (generally) go in for brainwashing.

Also DD went to C of E primary (not the same one) and she's a confirmed atheist - her choice. Got a bit fed up with all the 'God stuff' towards the end, but seemed to cope and the ethos of the school was a lovely one - IMO supported by the C of E nature of the school.

Collective Act of Worship is an assembly, often a (few) hymns / songs (and singing is good for development), a thought / story / thought provoking event and often some form of prayer. IME 10 - 15 minutes including messages. (Children often find it tricky sitting and focusing for longer at young ages)...

Trying to say - don't worry too much and check out the school policies...

redadmiral · 20/02/2008 22:08

... don't mena you're devious - just wondering if it will work - it should by rights.

Original poster
sherby · 20/02/2008 22:10

I don't think I would go for the overscribed one as I would have to drive, but we have another one in other direction that is non dom and is pretty much on par with the CofE one.

The CofE one does have a pool though

OP posts:
bb99 · 20/02/2008 22:10

All schools are supposed to have one each day, not just C of E ones (a collective act of worship)

Original poster
sherby · 20/02/2008 22:14

bb99, thanks for that post much admiration for your daughter

But I am going to be really awkward and say I don't feel comfortable with dd praying/hymns at all really. I am happy with the message/morals part but when it is actually directed towards Jesus Christ or God I have to draw the line.

OP posts:
MegBusset · 20/02/2008 22:19

I feel exactly like you do, Sherby. In fact I don't believe religious worship should have any place in schools. It's not being awkward. TBH we would move house before sending DS to a faith school. But that is not an option for everyone!

coastalmum · 20/02/2008 22:21

I was really surprised when we moved to this town that even the non dom schools all go to church at least for Christmas and Easter, and regularly have assemblies taken by local priests. This wasn't the case where we used to live.

Original poster
sherby · 20/02/2008 22:21

Meg thank you. I know it sounds awkward but it I just don't think it should have any place in a normal non religious school.

Glad i'm not the only one!

OP posts:
MsPontipine · 20/02/2008 23:24

C of E isn't an in your face religion. It's basically about living a decent life - being kind and thoughtful to others, treating others as you would be treated yourself - what's so wrong about that???

Original poster
sherby · 21/02/2008 07:02

MsPontipine, I don't think I said there was anything wrong with it, apart from the fact that we dont believe in it. So why would I want my children to participate in the active worship of a god we don't believe in.

I also think I said that I have no problem with the morals ie being kind and thoughtful being taught it is the praying to an actual God that is a no no.

OP posts:
AbbeyA · 21/02/2008 07:40

All schools have, by law, to a collective form of worship every day. (therefore you have to worship something).Even non church schools have a hymn, talk of some kind and prayer. A non church school will often say 'if you want to make this your prayer say amen'the inference being if they don't want to make it a prayer just listen without joining in. They often vary it by having a class assembly where the children do it or have an outsider in to give a talk or a BBC assembly etc.
RE is also the only subject that has to be taught by law in schools. I am always surprised that people don't realise that you still get assemblies and religious teaching if you don't go to church schools.You have the right as parents to withdraw your DC from assemblies and RE lessons. However if you withdraw from assembly they miss all the nice things like presentations of awards etc.
Cof E is the religion of the state and it is a state school so I would imagine the 2 go together.
Church schools vary, some won't do much more. Others have regular trips to church, weekly talks from the vicar. I know one that says grace before meals and has a going home prayer, in addition to morning prayers.If you have opted for a church school you can't really complain.

seeker · 21/02/2008 07:56

Sherby,this was an issue for me too - there was a mahoosively long thread about it somewhere in which I fought a a losing battle for genuinely secular schools. My children go to a non demominational school, and I am uncomfortable about the amount of God-stuff - it is possible to withdraw your child, but I woudn't want mine to be the only ones not at assembly and so on.

I am happy with the Nativity Play and the little Thank you God for the Daffodils/Pumpkins ceremonies. I am also happy with them learning about religion in RE lessons. But I don't care for the every day acceptance of the reality of God, and the assumption that everyone is a Christian (we live in a very mono-ethnic area).

I have sort of come to the view that there is nothing we can do about it. I ALWAYS mention anything particularly outrageous to the Head, and he smiles indulgently at me - but that is as far as I go now. Margaret Thatcher has a lot to answer for!

seeker · 21/02/2008 08:00

here's the old thread - we did go on a bit - but it was fun!

TheHonEnid · 21/02/2008 08:05

dds school c of e they pray every morning in assembly and say grace before lunch

it is very closely linked to local church - think this is normal for c of e schools

TheHonEnid · 21/02/2008 08:05

thats interesting abbey I didnt know that

SueW · 21/02/2008 08:09

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request.

seeker · 21/02/2008 08:14

But I don't want my children to be less than full members of the school - I want them to do everything and participate in everything. It annoys me that at a non-denominational school they can't do this without praying!

And actuall, I don't think they could come in at the end of assembly at our school - the hymns and things seem to be pretty integral to the whole shebang.

AbbeyA · 21/02/2008 08:31

I don't think that you will get a change until Cof E is separate from the state and the monarch is not 'defender of the faith'.I expect that it will come one day and then state schools will be truly secular.
It has already changed a lot, when I was at school it was very Christian, even though it wasn't a church school. We had grace before meals, prayer before going home etc.
A lot of staff are not happy leading assemblies if they have no faith themselves and therefore they tend to be a type of story with a moral and the children are not expected to pray if they are not used to it or don't want to.

Fillyjonk · 21/02/2008 08:32

lol every time I see this title I think it says "BRAYING in CoE primaries"

This is indeed a problem round here, where you can't get to the door of the local church schools for the 4x4s.

sorry, thats not helpful.

Original poster
sherby · 21/02/2008 08:54

Seeker yes that is what I was trying to convey. I am uncomfortable with the 'oh it won't do them any harm' thinking, I just don't agree with the every day acceptance and having to worship everyday.

Also like you would like DD to not have to opt out and be different from her peers.

What a pain in the arse I'm going to be

LOL at filly, its not actually a particularly fab school just our local catchment one.

Abbey, thanks for that I think I will have to do some ringing around today

OP posts: