SATS reflections

[weareallout]

I was never anti SATS. In some ways I like that Yr6 have some form of testing at the end. My child has found yr6 a bit boring but their primary is nothing like some about if all. Friends tell me their schools little except SATs work Jan - May. I'm actually now quite annoyed that their 7 years of broad & varied education are being defined by about 4 hours of tests. The reading one sounds hard & not relevant to modern day 10-11 year olds?!?! SPAG - I've managed a degree & career without it.
Our school said it was 'low key' but mocks / booster groups / breakfast club etc all make it a big deal.
Anyone feel like it's all out of control?!?

Yes. But no one will listen and according to the government the tests are meant to be hard. It's soul-destroying to see a vulnerable child, who would never have achieved age-related but has made so much progress, put down their pen after fifteen minutes and say I can't do this and I'm going to fail anyway. My lot are usually resilient and positive but so many were in tears this time.

The primary curriculum is over-loaded and contains too many concepts that make it a battle against time to deliver every year. It needs stripping back and I for one think that the tests should be revised. There is so much at stake, with league tables etc and ultimately it is driven by the Ofsted agenda.

It's toxic but where can we go and what can we do? Teachers have no professional voice anymore - the government doesn't hear it and I'm afraid that many parents don't either.

I think it is good for the dc to have exams and experience it. But I think it is not good if dc are getting so worried and anxious about it. At my dd school she said everyone was fine about it. My only issue with it is they kept giving homework to prep for the SATs, which we decided my dd did not have to do. She did the 11+, which was way more difficult. We had standardized tests growing up every year and I was never worried about it. No one worried.

It's out of control. Our school also said no pressure but a tions said otherwise. As homework I sometimes could not answer the reading papers ( odd question) as questions did not fit the text. Some questions are so poorly written.

This level of anxiety ( non sleeping stressed children) is unnecessary and I am bloody livid.

Actions, sorry.

One of our TAs did SATs when she was a child and was a reader for the tests this year. She couldn't believe how difficult they are now.
Post 2016 with the new curriculum, they are very challenging. Things unfortunately have changed drastically.
I'm not against testing but it's a very fine balance and at the moment it isn't fit for purpose.

Ashard20

Absolutely agree. Such mixed messages to the children. My dd was told that the SATS are to test the teachers not the children and not to worry about it but then was in catch up groups.

I think the reactions of the adults around the kids is the most important factor in how children perceive them.

Just asked my year 6 DS for his thoughts on them and he said "I thought they were ok". We didn't make a big deal out of them. The school did, to a degree, but they focused on telling the kids "the sats are to test how well we've taught you while you were at this school". They had sats club once a week, past papers etc, but only one boy in their class was distressed during the tests (and he has other issues going on. I personally think the school could have managed him a bit better in terms of seating/support)

I do think children need to be tested by an external body at the end of year 6, because how else will we find out the quality of education provided by a school?

Similar feelings then. Yes I like that they are used to some form of progress testing in Yr6 but there must be a better way.
A friend told me yesterday that her DD hated Yr6 and was crushed by them.
Her nephew cried for two hours after the reading one.
It's become like massive final exams to judge primary success - of both teachers & DC. Except they only measure a few things. Not broader subjects. Not music or physical literacy or science.
Not ability to speak up. They massively pressure any DC with any need for Ed support.
Four hours or so of really hard exams.

The problem is there are many capable dc who are able to do the test. Perhaps the solution would be take make two different tests and put dc into different groups depending on their academic ability. I have read about many dc in tears, but at my dd school no one was worried, no one in tears. My dd thought the SATs were easy. When I looked at the mocks, there were very easy compared to the 11+ I get that we do not want dc upset, but I think this needs to be managed. For example when my dd took the 11+ some exams were adaptive, meaning they get harder and harder the better you do. So the first test my dd thought she failed because she said she got such long difficult math questions. She came out not upset, just matter of fact "I failed that one. Ah well, I will ace the next one." When in fact, we realized, she did not fail. She passed and in the end got an offer to all the schools she applied! Before her exams I made sure to tell her some questions would be very difficult and probably used to assess the academic scholarship candidates. The same could be said to the dc about SATs, the more difficult questions are meant to assess only the small amount of dc that can do it, so do not lose hope. If a dc is prepared for this and not caught off guard they will be fine. But if they prep and prep and prep and told "You are a super start you will do great!" then they see a difficult test, I can see why they would be upset. They should be warned before that yes, it might be difficult, just answer what you can.

There are so many things that are not fit for purpose.

• the idea that a child who does not meet expected had “failed” (would you say this if they ran slower than the average 11 year old? That as a runner they have failed?)
• that schools are benchmarked on these results and parents will make choices based on the results of a single cohort of children without understanding the context/limitations within a specific group
• that these parental decisions affect future funding (fewer children - less money) so schools can’t afford for children not to be doing well
• that a child who was tutored for the 11+ would have found this week’s reading paper ok. So if you live in an 11+ area and pay to tutor your average child, they will have an advantage over an average child in a non 11+ area who has not had that tutoring (not research based - just my gut feeling having read the paper while my class did it)
• that over-preparing and achieving a SATS score that doesn’t reflect your normal working ability means a child is put onto a “flight path” of expectations at GCSE that they and their secondary teachers may find it impossible to keep up with…
• phone now out of battery and I can’t carry on, but I probably have 10 more points to add….

@SamPoodle123 are you a grammar area? We border Trafford grammar LA and they no doubt have a polarised experience. Tutoring in Y4-5 for 11+ is whole huge industry & wealth plays a very significant part. Those who had tutors & sat the entrance exams probably found SATs less stressful

It is all very well for the government to say they are meant to be hard, but what of the poor child who is a slow learner and has to sit through something that they simply cannot do - but might have made brilliant progress for them and worked hard for that progress?

It is shameful.

Until the teaching unions get together and say "Not in my name" and boycott the tests, children will have their true broad education curtailed and stunted by the dinosaurs in government.

My DCwas calm but had been a bit on edge for a few weeks. They are v bright. I can not imagine how hard if English is your second language, you are dyslexic, you are disadvantaged in other ways & although made progress are still 'behind' etc
We did some comprehension practice at home and often I was like 'well that's obtuse/I'd never have put that' .. and that was on easier ones.
They didn't manage to finish test paper but just said they accepted they not very good at it.
SPAG & maths they were aiming for GD.

I'm in a grammar area, and DC already know which school they're going to, so don't get too worked up about SATS. Parents who have pushed their child through tutoring just aren't bothered about SATS results once their child has a grammar school place, and the DC pick up on that. Or they already see themselves as a failure, so Y6 teachers have their work cut out keeping all of the DC motivated, either way.

One of my own DC got quite low grades in their SATS in 2016 (I think!) and she now has an unconditional place at university for the Autumn. But then they only babbled until they were nearly 4, and now speak incredibly clearly with an excellent vocabulary It's a good job I wasn't trying to get them into an independent school with a selection test at 4! Testing children can prove to be an inaccurate measure of later performance.

I'm not so bothered about children who have difficulty reading etc doing the SATs- it's only a few hours of boredom. I have more issue with unnecessary SPAG being taught, which is just forgotten.

But I can see why parents in other areas are desperate for high grades in SATs so their child is pushed on through secondary school, especially if they end up at a dodgy comprehensive. (All the "secondary moderns" here are good, so that's not too much of an issue)

No. My did the 11+ to get into private school though. She started her prep end of year 5. However, even if she did not prep, I am confident she would not have struggled with the SATs. She always scored high on the gap analysis. I was never given her scores, but teacher meetings they always said she did really well or scored really high. I am sure most that prepared for 11+ would have found the SATS easy in comparison. However, at my dd's school almost no one did the 11+ and still everyone was fine with the SATs.

@AngieBolen There is a bit of that in my area. Those who were tutored and sat exams for private selective schools really didn't give a hoot about SATs as they were irrelevant to them by the time they got their offers.
And they'd find them easier.
(I know about 8 and all tutored for at least a year)
Presented another challenge for the poor Y6 staff as they have to battle all ends of the spectrum.

I do think children need to be tested by an external body at the end of year 6, because how else will we find out the quality of education provided by a school?

How can you possibly find out the quality of education provided by an infant or first school then?!

@Shinyandnew1 I don't know what an infant or first school is?

In this LA, the schools take kids at either 4 or 5 and they go right through to 11 at the same school. They don't have separate schools for younger and older kids, if that's what you mean?

@SamPoodle123 I think in the interests of balance, it must be noted that if your child passed the 11+ they are clearly academically able and therefore may not have been too concerned about the content of the SATs. However, for many children, this is not the case. We cannot have two levels of SATs as many will tell you that even classroom teaching should not be highly differentiated as it was even 18 months ago- now it is scaffolded and adapted.

Analysis has shown that the reading paper would have taken a fluent reader (90 words per minute) 8 minutes longer to read the text and questions than it would have done last year. The text was only 190 words under the maximum word limit, the questions were often unnecessarily wordy thus adding to the words which needed to be read. It is calculated that those same fluent readers would need to score one mark every 25 seconds- not allowing for time to scan back through the paper. The reading paper does get harder as the texts progress, it always has done, but I felt that there was no gentle introduction to get the less confident readers started.

Much of the style of the papers had changed, making the past papers less useful in terms of preparation. Children who looked at these and found familiar ground would possibly have been shaken by these. And why does every maths question need a story? More reading to plough through, even though it's not a reading test! These children are ten and eleven years old, I think the government has lost sight of this fact.

Just for clarity, my class found them tough going but I keep reminding them that they never have to look at those papers again. They are over, we now have much to do to get us ready for sports day, transition to secondary school and DT projects to organise. 😀

Well, there are plenty of infant (and first schools in some areas) schools still around-they take children for reception to year 2 (or 3, for first schools).

How do you think we could possibly find out the quality of education that they provide without externally marked exams?

Or schools in Wales and Scotland that don’t do SATs-what about those? Or private schools?

We had a child who has been greater depth for reading since year two. She also is a sensible child with plenty of common sense. She is also ten years old. She couldn't finish the reading comp test this year and did leave the room crying. After some talk time and her parents told her what has been in the press she is back to her normal self saying that they will have to lower the grading bands if everyone foisting super hard. Again she is ten years old.

Testing is not a problem but it has to based on the world and experiences of ten year old children. There has been an error this year and that has to be addressed sensibly so that everyone involved can move on knowing that the children's efforts and ability have been properly recognised.

Oh and the majority of secondary schools do their own testing after the children join. That speaks a lot for how they are judged as a good indicator of ability.

I do think children need to be tested by an external body at the end of year 6, because how else will we find out the quality of education provided by a school?
Do you honestly think that SATs tell you the quality of education in the school? In what way? It tells you whether there are some children who are good or bad at sitting tests set by a government out of touch with what education really is.

I guess it all depends on how you define education. If you see it as an ability to do well at tests then I suppose it gives a small indication of that; but is that really how you see education?

@mischance and @Shinyandnew1 I think my children's primary school has a broad curriculum and that they teach it well and educate the kids on a wide range of things.

DDs secondary school is more test focused and I do think it would be good for them to offer more trips, more subjects for GCSE options etc.

On the whole, yes I see education as being about passing tests. How do you view it?

My son and others in his class sat the 11 plus. None of them found Sats 'easy' . I've always encouraged my DS to never be complacent as mistakes can be made and different people find different aspects challenging.

On the whole, yes I see education as being about passing tests. How do you view it?

How sad. I view it as teaching skills and knowledge, working collaboratively, creativity, problem solving, a whole catalogue of social skills and promoting a thirst and love for learning.

Did you answer how schools that don’t have externally marked tests (eg infant/first/private/Welsh/Scottish schools) can show the quality of learning they provide?