SATS reflections

[weareallout]

I was never anti SATS. In some ways I like that Yr6 have some form of testing at the end. My child has found yr6 a bit boring but their primary is nothing like some about if all. Friends tell me their schools little except SATs work Jan - May. I'm actually now quite annoyed that their 7 years of broad & varied education are being defined by about 4 hours of tests. The reading one sounds hard & not relevant to modern day 10-11 year olds?!?! SPAG - I've managed a degree & career without it.
Our school said it was 'low key' but mocks / booster groups / breakfast club etc all make it a big deal.
Anyone feel like it's all out of control?!?

My personal take is that a child who performs at a certain level in the English SAT, would be able to score similarly in History or Geography.

Same with the Sciences...the Maths SAT would roughly correlate to the child's Science ability.

At least, that's been the case among my DD and her friends, which I realise is a small sample.

In terms of independent schools/those that don't do SATS, I would get a vibe from the school, look at work, talk to the teachers...that's how I would tell whether it was a reasonable fit for my kids. However, what I am personally looking for for my children is a high degree of academic performance. A lack of external data to judge this would put me off a school.

That being said, DD is now 16 and her state comprehensive school is so focused on everyone getting the best academic results that she does miss out in other ways. So there are no trips, no plays, no dance shows, no music recitals etc. There is some sport, but not a wide range. However, she does a lot of extra curricular which fills this gap. This is why I say that for MY kids, it's a great school. Others may not see it that way.

You’re in perfect agreement with the DfE then who think it’s entirely reasonable to set GCSE targets for Food Tech, French, PE, etc, based on one hour of a ten/eleven year old’s life in May Y6. 🙄🙄🙄

@Feenie but there must be a reason why they think it too?! They've not just plucked it out of thin air, have they?

Yes! It’s ludicrous! They even use them to set Science targets - instead of the actual Science teacher assessment they make us submit 🤷‍♀️

I don't believe that there's no data to back it up. Just wouldn't make sense. The DfE must have educators involved in this process and in deciding these things.

As far as the teaching profession can see, the DfE has no educators involved in this process!!

...or any process for that matter.

I remember doing SATs at school and they were fine. No pressure, people were reassured that if they didn't finish a paper that was fine, we were given the results on a slip of paper and everyone had a well done and a sticker- no tears. The curriculum was more sane than it is now (for lack of a better word).

Teachers and pupils have been done dirty by the periodic introduction of arbitrary targets which don't account for the progression of individuals but rather count anything below x as bad, the underfunding of schools and the ridiculous changes brought in by people who have evidently not set foot in a state school for many years if ever. Some of the stuff DC does at primary school is just wild and pointless, not sure what's going on but we should all be concerned.

@Ashard20 what makes you say that?

I can understand that the testing may not work for every child, in every individual circumstance. If - as a PP said - there are kids with EAL, who are from deprived communities etc, then yes, I can see that teachers may have massive challenges to overcome in their cohorts.

However, we can't just say "oh it'll be too hard for those kids to meet the base standard" because some of them will surely be capable of it. What would you suggest is better than SATS? What else could be used?

I'm glad it's not just me. My Dc doesn't mind SPAG but often wondered why it's to the level of detail it is.. does anyone use it in real life!?!?

No. Total waste of time and I feel sorry for the teachers who have an absolutely packed curriculum and have to deliver this shite as well as the children who could be learning something more useful or (shock) doing enriching activities instead.

As if the parents won't tell their kids the results...? Why do you need to know the results when it's supposed to be measure of the school and not the child? That's what your termly reports are for.* Seriously, if every child did anonymous standardised testing and only the school found out the general results etc then you'd have less pressure from everywhere, kids wouldn't be tutored through them, and it would probably be a fairer reflection of what is actually going on.*
The thing is 00100001 the results aren't just a measure of the school, they are used by secondary school to predict GCSE grades. My DD is autistic and has other difficulties, i was shocked when school said she was following her progression, because as a parent (particularly in lockdown learning) I really saw the level of her difficulties. I know she struggles. It's actually spectacularly unhelpful being told she's doing okay...it's kind of gaslighting, because what it means is she's doing okay for her based on primary level SATs....actually she's failing and well below average for her peers.
But because she's following her yr 6 progression, it's very, very hard to get any support or help. Currently she won't get any GCSEs at a pass (a C in old money and I think it's a 4 in the new grading system although I haven't quite got my head round it yet).
I'm pretty sure most kids aren't tutored for SATs they might well be for the 11+ but that's not a compulsory exam.

I wouldn't be too sure. There are very few, often no, qualified teaching professionals working in the DfE departments who make this decisions.

Current teachers don't believe the system works. And they are more likely to know as they deal with it year in year, day in day.

🤣🤣🤣

@Feenie OK so you believe otherwise.

Just doesn't make sense to me that the Government are deliberately doing stuff to piss off the teaching profession and stress out 10 year olds, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. I mean, why would they?

Because, like many people, they think that because they went to school once upon a time, they are in a perfect position to tell people who work in schools how to run them.

A bit like me telling a brain surgeon how to measure if their work is successful or not.

Yep. This. Exactly.

The DfE have genuinely plucked these arbitrary standards out of their arses.

Take the SPAG for example. Writing is creative. It's an art. So instead of writing for pleasure children have to demonstrate stacks of punctuation objectives and utter bollocks such as subjunctive mood or passive voice shoehorned into a piece of writing which has become utterly formulaic. Because writing is subjective. And the only way to 'measure' it is to ensure children use 'fronted adverbials.'*

*which don't really exist. They were made up. By the DfE.

It's insane. And incredibly depressing when I see examples from the English lang GCSE which wouldn't technically-speaking, meet the Y6 standard. Go figure

No, I'm not buying it. Doesn't stand to reason.

Honestly!! It's madness.

I don't think they do it to just piss off the profession. It stinks of someone at the DfE who remembers what they did in the 1950s and therefore is what modern kids 'should' know.

Which is nonsense and totally unsuitable for a very different world.

I blame Gove.

@Dacadactyl Aw bless you, your naivety is quite touching. Do you realise how many education secretaries there have been over the last two years? Not one with any experience in teaching, by the way. Even Amanda Whatsit in charge of Ofsted has never worked in a school.

I also think, judging by the content and themes of this year's reading paper (which I know I can't divulge just yet) that whoever designed them had probably never met an eleven yr old.

Certainly not one in an inner city / deprived area / non-middle-class one anyway!

English and maths SATS outcomes are used to set all GCSE targets, including PE and Art! Maybe there is some correlation between English and history/geography but English and PE?, come on, how?
My son scored level 5s ( when that was the highest assessment) in reading, writing and maths SATS. However, his PE and art targets were always far too high for him ever to get anywhere near, quite simply because he is autistic and dyspraxic!! But every year I was warned that he was " At risk" of falling behind in these subjects, no shit, Sherlock!

@Feenie the Education Secretary doesn't HAVE to have experience of teaching in my mind. They should, however, be advised by edicators. I would like to see proof if this is not the case. Teachers would have a point if this is the case.

I dont think I'm the naive one! Do you expect parents to rely on you saying "I've taught the curriculum and all is well here" with no external oversight?

*It stinks of someone at the DfE who remembers what they did in the 1950s and therefore is what modern kids 'should' know.

Whats worse is that it stinks of someone who was remembering what they learn at school in the 50s but has remembered it wrong!

My parents both went to school in the 50s and say that loads of SPAG stuff they’ve seen my kids do for homework is rubbish! Yes, they had a big focus on grammar and would parse sentences etc, but they deny any knowledge of having to know what a fronted adverbial of time or a noun phrase is!

But it's the parents who are the problem often not the schools . They virtue signal about SATs, there is posts every year.
One parent claimed her D's hadn't done history in year 6, my DS in the same class had bought home a huge drawing of motte and bailey castle they had been studying that week.
There was a parent on TV complaining how stressful it was for her child. Her child was interrupting her saying, but mummy it is you that is making me stressed🙄