Reception aged child socially isolated - PFB or genuine concern?

[TempsPerdu]

At a bit of a loss as to what to do about DD, who is coming towards the end of her Reception year at a demographically mixed school (London suburb). Basically I’m trying to work out whether we’re being completely PFB, or are right to be concerned about the social side of things - so any advice/similar experiences much appreciated!

We’re probably a bit more anxious than usual about friendships because DD is an only with no cousins, so we’re keen to get this aspect ‘right’ and ensure she can establish a strong social network of peers. But for various reasons we feel that she has been unlucky with the cohort of girls in her class, as DD seems to have little in common with any of them. She is older in the year, very capable and articulate, whereas I know that the cohort as a whole is a challenging one (I’m a governor at the school so am aware of the issues), with average attainment being lower than would be typical for the school. Her cohort seems to have been hit hard by covid and other factors, and the only other children working at a similar level to DD are boys, which means she has spent the year mostly working in groups with them rather than bonding with the other girls.

The girls in the class also skew unusually young (about two thirds have August birthdays) and DD often finds them quite babyish. She doesn’t enjoy the same types of games as them, and from the outset has gravitated to the Year 1 and 2 girls instead, although obviously she only gets to spend limited time with the older children.

We’ve felt throughout that she would have been better off in the parallel class, which has a larger group of more able, mature girls, and I know that the school does sometimes mix classes at the end of Reception, but they’re not keen on doing this unless they absolutely have to, and understandably won’t do it for the sake of one child.

So DD tends to be left on her own at break times/during free play. I’m in school regularly as a volunteer, and often see her wandering round the playground with her lunchbox looking for someone to play with. Until recently she was enjoying school, mainly because she loves learning and the adults in her class. But recently she has become reluctant to go in each morning, saying she dislikes play times and school is ‘boring’. I worry about her becoming increasingly isolated in Year 1, when much of the adult contact she thrives on is withdrawn and the children become more reliant on their peers. Obviously these things are always the luck of the draw, but looking at the children coming up from nursery I can see that she would have had many more natural peers within that cohort.

So we feel a bit stuck. DP and I have already discussed possibly moving for secondary as we’re not happy with the local options, and we’re now wondering whether we should bring this forward and try again at another primary. But it’s so very possible that we’re worrying unnecessarily, and that DD’s issues could resolve in time, perhaps as the other girls in her class mature a bit. Would love any words of wisdom, as it feels like we’re going round in circles!

@Liorae As in, which aspects are PFB? Obviously DD is my first born (and indeed will be my ‘only born’!) and I do have high expectations for her, but I’m interested to know where this crosses over into being ‘precious’ about things.

I would move her.

Being brutally honest - she is an only child with no cousins and you say you want her to establish a 'strong social network of peers', presumably so she grows up with close friends for company at the weekend and during holidays when otherwise it might get a bit lonely for her.

I might get slated for saying this - adults interfering in/socially engineering children's friendships is never a good look! - but you're only going to develop those close 'cousin-like' bonds if your DC makes friends in families where you get on well with the parents and you and they don't mind spending a significant amount of time facilitating the children's friendships - going on days out together, having frequent playdates, doing barbecues in the garden, sleepovers when they're older.

So you need to find families where not only does your DD get on well with the kids but you also gel with the parents and they also want to put the effort in.

And it's been two terms - if your DD was going to form solid friendships with the children in her class, she would have done it by now. Yes, some friendships may develop gradually and evolve over time, but generally the strongest friendships my older DC (same age as your DD) has formed are those where they've had an immediate connection/rapport with another child and the children just 'get' each other somehow.

Sometimes when a child gets on better with older children, it's not necessarily a sign that the child is too mature for their peers. It's more that the older children have developed the ability to make allowances for the younger one. This in itself is a skill that would be a useful one for your DD to develop. Not wanting to play with someone because they have different interests is going to rule out a lot of potential friendships.

I wouldn't put too much of an emphasis on academic ability either. In my Reception class the children mix with anyone and everyone, regardless of their particular abilities. They range from children still in pull-ups who need a lot of support, through to older children who arrived already able to read/write etc.

I mean this in the kindest possible way but I'm wondering whether you're perhaps a little too involved with what's happening in your DD's school. It's not typical to know so much about the ages, abilities, social groupings and academic aspects of a child's class, or to see what their child is doing in the playground at lunchtime.

Has your DD's teacher had any concerns about friendships and social development? It might be worth asking them about what could be put in place to support her at school with that side of things, eg lunchtime clubs or encouraging more mixing with her peers during class time.

Op...... I would definitely consider switching schools if I were you. If shes in reception now as the oldest girl isolated from the other girls then its entirely likely that will continue. Or consider home educating instead.

Why can't she have playdates, enjoy friendships with the boys if she likes them?
My DD best friend is a boy, basically I think she doesn't like Disney princesses so didn't bond over those in Y2 (Y1 was mainly lockdown) and now prefers a mixed group even though the girls have left those behind. She's in Y4 and happy with her friends.

My daughter was like this although she was a July birthday she was hugely ahead at primary mainly because she was highly intelligent and read fluently before starting and perhaps other advantages - I was a single parent and she did everything with me - I went to visit a castle she came and we had a good close bond - she was a whizz at maths and enjoyed adults. In primary she was clearly different - focussed on work and her own creativity and it wasn’t long before along she was well mannered and behaved that little cliques started forming often same kind of parents in the village with the school and girls behaving like queen bees etc I encouraged cubs, tennis, swimming and music as those were her interests. Socially she just wasn’t bothered.

fast forward to the start of year 7 she met some like minded girls at an all girls selective grammar eg reading Jane Austen - all enjoyed playing D and D and some crafts and she had a core of 5-6 friends. She was diagnosed as autistic in year 10 alongside two of those other girls in the group. No behavioural problems - school reluctant to push a diagnosis etc but it was clear that it presents differently in boys than girls.

She is happy and likes mentoring much younger ones and likes her friends which are mainly academic girls from university who she knows.

encourage her and don’t force social behaviour. Honestly she will meet her tribe. We aren’t all the same.

my son is different highly sociable but 6 boys in 60 children in his year. The mums of the boys set up a boys club - to get the
socialising after school on holidays all heavy on football etc
he doesn’t like football or rough and tumble so gradually we have stopped and he’s made good friends with girls and they often come over to garden or bake. Gender is very stereotyped from a very young age - but they are just children.

teacher her chess - if she likes it join a chess club. Mine enjoy a local history club etc

Kindly, OP, your problem is not that your child is too clever or mature for her classmates, but that she has under-developed social skills, if she is that unable to find common ground with kids who are not that much younger than her. Move her if you like, but I don't think that will magically solve the problem.

OP, don’t second guess yourself. You know your daughter’s personality and interests and how you and your husband were raised and are raising her. That’s your ‘culture’ as it were. The other girls who are less mature and into different things might catch up. The thing that would concern me more is the one-sided nature of the play dates and the other children whose families don’t prioritise socialising outside of the family for cultural reasons. My mother worked in a private school like this and the majority of girls socialised with their families exclusively. The minority of girls who were not from these backgrounds found it hard to make real friends that they could see outside of the classroom.

So she sounds quite similar to my DS actually - he is obsessed with nature, animals and birds - and he is at a school where a lot of the parents haven't taught their kids these things. But although the other kids don't know all the names of the different insects etc, they are still interested and DS is able to draw them into his interests. In reception, he formed "beetle club" with his little buddies.

We have compromised too - to help him fit in. Many of his peers have had games consoles since they were 3/4, I am not comfortable with that but I do let him play Minecraft which helps him fit in.

He is autumn born so on the "top table" at the moment (I don't know if this will be forever, I think some of the summer borns will catch up) but he does fine socially with the younger children, even the one who only speaks Spanish.

I think what I am leaning towards the more that you post is that it's that your DD doesn't have strong social skills. I am not trying to be mean about that, I also had poor social skills. I think there is a balance to be struck between not making her change who she is to fit in but also not telling her (implicitly or explicitly) that she is better than her peers

I agree with a poster above, it’s about who you get on with as well. Look at yourself and husband as adults, how are your friendships? How do you interact with others? My children (I have been told by their teachers and get the feeling from parents who invite my children over) are fairly popular. I’ve got a range of friends, tend to chat easily to others, get invited to things and tend to go and get along with whoever is there, husband is similar. My own children will play well with younger children and older children, children who are different from them, they might say afterwards it was ok but they’ll give things a go. A big thing they’ve got going for them (and they’re not as academic as your daughter) is they don’t take themselves too seriously and are willing to compromise.

You could try sitting back and watching your child at the park and considering whether there are things you could work on, as well as considering how you might come across to others (this is hard to do but could give you an insight into how you’re daughter might be coming across). For example, as I said above saying no or suggesting alternatives more often. I find with only children because they don’t have to bend to a sibling, parents don’t always make them compromise. E.g. your child wants to play a game, you suggest something different, what would happen? Try and model how to reach a compromise in these situations and praise her if she fully lets you choose and participate.

Also, a final lesson I’ve learnt is just because you were a an effective teacher doesn’t necessarily mean you are just as an effective parent! I find I’ve had to alter how I parent both my children and it’s been a steep learning curve for me. Confidence (in you and her) is great but there’s a fine line between confidence and arrogance (even if you don’t mean to come across like that) and that can put people off (adults and children).

I'd just move her to another school.

your daughter

To me, it sounds like the female profile of high-functioning autism:

• She prefers the company of older children, often 2-3 years older.
• Unwilling to play with her peers on their terms.
• She prefers play to be centred around things (feathers and trees) rather than people (mummies and daddies).
• Doesn't respond well to the free-flow nature of EYFS and is looking forward to ‘proper learning’.
• Responds well to adult led instruction.
• She prefers calm and ordered play and hates chaos and excessive noise.

I don’t think you’re PFB, but have that gut instinct that something isn’t right and that’s she’s struggling socially.

Given all the responses here, to me there are 3 clear options .

a)Wait and see how things pan out in Year 1

b) Request a move to the parallel class (I have known this to happen in similar circumstances)

c)Consider a move.

I wish you well in this and hope your daughter finds her niche.

I think you sound like a great, really switched on parent who has obviously invested a lot in making your child the intelligent little girl she is. State school can be very hard for academic children who have invested parents who aim high. There is such a mix and catering for the middle is the low bar that is set. I disagree with the PP who says your DD lacks social skills. I think it’s the other children who are behind for their years and that’s really difficult to overcome. There is currently a huge gulf in reception/yr1/yr2 between those who were educated, socialized as much as was possible during lockdown and those who were subject to benign neglect. Add in natural ability (or not) and behaviour/attitude/ability in a reception class can range from age 2 to age 7. I’d seriously think about moving her as it sounds like she’s being held back to me. Mine are also older for their year groups and it’s frustrating for everyone that they’re held back (as they invariably are). Equally it can be hard for the younger ones who sometimes struggle to keep up.

Op, We had similar experience in some aspects, so I do feel for you.

But demographically it was the other way around, DC's 1st school is mostly white and we are non-white. DC was demotivated and kind of "off the radar" kid in school.

We transferred DC to an independent school, which is surprisingly racially diverse. DC thrives there in many aspects. Achievements are recognized and get the chance to represent school in some fields.

I find it is more about finding like-minded people, than ethnicity. DC's out of school hobby is white dominant and gets on well with peers as they share the same interest. Also, in the new school, DC is still absolutely minority in the sense of ethnical background (despite lots of non-white from other ethnical background). But kids/parents are mixed well. And they have lots of chances to meet kids across the school (eg. PE, extracurricular clubs, break time etc) to meet like-minded peers.

I would suggest you give your DD more time before moving her. It is still early days. Things can change later. Also, I do not want to enter state/private debate. in our case, other local states are more or less the same so not an option.

Hi TempsPerdu
Now I have read your other posts in the thread and feel more in common with you.

Both me and my partner are from a culture which values education significantly and DC is mature and able. We have to admit that some parents are laid back. Eg. In DC old school, some parents complained about homework, live lessons during lockdown etc because they felt teachers were giving them extra burden.

I also knew about performance of the cohort/school, the change of school intakes and COVID impact on study etc. because of similar reason as you. For us, it was fine in early years but became difficult later on.

It is not the problem of you or your daughter for being "socially isolated". You do not have to lower your bar to fit in.

Keep you eyes on the situation and evaluate the other options. If the school environment gets better naturally, it is fantastic; if not, there is little you can do to change it - move to a more suitable environment.

This sounds quite similar to my experience at primary school - I'm a September birthday, I think probably was a bit of a square peg in a round hole with the kids in my primary school, an only child (although my parents did all the things that you describe to give me lots of contact with other kids). As I got older I did make good friends, but was also bullied when we were in a mixed class with an older year group. I went to private secondary school - it was great. My parents moved me because they didn't think I was learning much at school. I was desperate to go (although I never told them this) because I knew the local state girls school (whilst it has a good reputation) would just be full of the girls who had bullied me. Children do generally thrive in school with other kids similar to them.

I don’t think this a wind up. I have an Autumn child and she is also much more mature than her peer and academically very capable. She is older and her KS1 results are exceeding or greater depth (can’t remember the exact name). She struggles to play with other children but she did have friends in KS1.

DD also says the games are childish and doesn’t want to join in. I told her she should play what others like if she wants to play with others but she said she prefers to play with no one. There’s nothing I can do.

I’m posting only to say I understand. I have no suggestions. DD is socially isolated at school after falling out with her last friend groups. So even if they do find a friend, they change often and there is no guarantee it lasts. My older child is more socially normal and she has switched multiple friendship groups during primary.

I hope DD find her new friends, but she told me she knows everyone in her year and she isn’t friends with any of them. I do despair!

It's great that you care so much about your daughter and her education...
But .
You sound far too overinvested - volunteering to see what's going on , school governor . Analysing data on attainment and birth dates . All exacerbated by your daughter being an only child .
Relax abit . Your daughter is probably more mature and probably benefits from lots of adult and one to one attention and teaching . However she is going to have to learn to get along with all sorts across the school years .
It comes across like you are looking for academically superior more mature children for your daughter to be friends with . Or you feel that the kids / parents are not really your sort of people - in which case you need to find a school with a different demographic.

Hi op , it sounds like your DD lacks social skills, wants to play on her own terms has fixed ideas of play .
I would look at improving her social skills.

No offense but as the fellow parent of a reception child (and I've had past experience working in a primary school) I find some of this unbelievable. I can't imagine 4/5 year olds on tiktok sharing memes? Just couldn't be a thing also with regards to the boys playing football and putting your daughter in goal. At that age they just aren't advanced enough to arrange a game like that the obsession boys have with playing football every damn play time doesn't usually start until at least year 2.

On another note my brother was similar to your daughter at this age and he was diagnosed with Aspergers (now known as autism). It may not be the case here but something to consider

I was going to say the same - these traits jumped straight out to me. I think you should observe her with other children from an objective perspective and consider whether HF ASD/ASD might be the cause.