Yr 3 son below expected levels because he can't get things from his head to paper

[CallawayV]

I've just had by son's Year 3 parents evening. At the last one in October he was behind in every subject. This carries on from Year 2 when the teachers kept telling me he was fine and where he should be, even though I saw him struggling when I did stuff at home with him. Then in his first SATS he was behind in everything.

The teacher told me yesterday that he is making progress, particularly in his maths. That's possibly because he hired an online tutor for 30 minutes each week, and his confidence has really grown thanks to that tutor - he was terrified of maths before that.

She said he tries hard but he's still behind and she says the main reason is because he can't get stuff on paper. She said his verbal reasoning in maths and English is fantastic and he can talk through a maths problem or English text brilliantly, but he can't get that on paper. If he sees a maths problem written in words, he basically just guesses, she says, rather than trying to work out the maths problem. It means he's done badly in all his end of term assessments.

He's amazing at times tables (thanks to TT Rock Stars) and is Rock Legend already on that app - he's so quick I can't answer them like him! But he struggles to see, in a maths question, that they're asking him to show his times tables or division knowledge. If you give him a hint that's what they're looking for - he's away, but he doesn't spot it himself.

Apparently she's given up with his handwriting as it's his "own style" and is more focussed on the content (to be honest I thought his handwriting had improved loads!) He rushes into things without thinking through the question or what he wants to say properly.

She also said he's quite immature for his age. Not in messing about, but in how he responds to set backs (he's a bit of a drama queen basically) and that could be why he doesn't see the importance of presentation in his work, because he's not as mature as others. My partner and I have seen this in him, and we are worried it will cost him friends because he doesn't seem as grown up as other kids his age.

After trying to homeschool him during most of reception and Year 1 due to Covid, I feel incredibly guilty and he also hates me trying to help with things so trying to help him improve is hard. He sees through subtle attempts to squeeze in learning (because that's how I had to homeschool him!) so it's hard to give extra support.

Sorry for the long post but I would really appreciate any tips on help him with his maturity and getting stuff out of his head on to paper!!

Is there any discussion around dyslexia?

If he knows his stuff, but can't get it onto paper you should be able to request that he's assessed verbally.
At secondary school someone in DDs year was assessed in that way, and also was able to dictate some of her GCSEs to someone experienced in being able to get the right words out of her without actually "helping" her.

My partner is dyslexic and back at the end of Year 1 and in Year 2 we asked them to keep an eye on this as we'd seen him do some of the same things my partner used to when he was young. My partner didn't get assessed until university and absolutely soared after that. But at school they say they will keep an eye on it. In Year 1 the SEN co-ordinator looked at his written work but said the errors could just be typical for that age (reversing letters etc).
At yesterday's parents evening this one discussed - and when I asked if not being able to get stuff on paper from your head was normal for this age, that's when she started talking about him being immature and that he may, basically, grow into being able to do it?
Do you think I should raise the dyslexia again and request an assessment, I'm not really sure how it works?

I'm dyslexic and that was my first thought as well. I would definitely follow up if you can.

I would raise a concern about dyslexia or dysgraphia

Thank you, I was looking up things on the internet last night (probably a bit thing I know!) and I came across dysgraphia, which I hadn't heard of before but when they discussed how it presents, it really did sound like my son.

I suggest you get an EP assessment. I don't know where in the country you are, but a good one is worth their weight in gold. It sounds like your son has processing difficulties and a lot of what you're saying is exactly how my daughter was that age. She's got dyslexia and dyspraxia.

I agree with others posters that you should get him assessed. Could potentially be dyspraxia as well.

It sounds like me. I'm dyslexic and I think in 3D pictures, I'm pretty good at mathematics and drawing. What is his drawing like?

Just to add, some of the stuff you said makes me want to give him a hug. He's probably not immature, so often kids with difficulties are so aware of them and will try to hide behind a 'I don't care' facade. They're not idiots, your son can see he's probably getting lots of things wrong and doesn't know why. He's rushing things because he wants to get it over with or he when he's inevitably told it's all wrong he can laugh and say he rushed it hahaha.
I've worked with kids with dyslexia and dyscalculia for years and my advice would be to get an EP assessment asap and than a SALT and OT one if you have the money. There's a lot of red flags in what you wrote for speech too, it sounds like he is struggling with comprehension and processing language eg the maths questions. Receptive language is difficult to help with and he will need help quickly before this has a detrimental effect on his behaviour.

Thank you for your advice. I will go back to the school and see if we can get an assessment. His drawing is fun but quite chaotic, I'd say. He loves lots of detail and will focus lots on getting facial expressions etc. He certainly conveys mood and emotion in his drawings, but they're quite jumbled and busy. I think that's part of the problem with this writing, he has really good verbal vocabulary and so much he wants to say, he just can't get it all down quickly enough and doesn't have the spelling etc to convey it properly.

He sounds like younger me -l have dysgraphia and dyspraxia. Dyslexia also popped into me mind -all 3 of these are part of the same family

This made me blub because it's spot on and I just want to hug him too! I will have to google some of the acronyms but my partner and I will do and pay anything to help him achieve what we know he can and wants to.

Just to add my DS has slow processing speed (5% assessed by EP) and has dyspraxia but that also involves motor skills difficulties. This may not apply if your DS can draw/is not clumsy but worth knowing about.

Yes. How's hsi reading?

One of my children has profound dyslexia and dyscalculia. He uses a touch screen laptop and a dictation headset and rarely writes anything. His vocabulary is outstanding and he is bright as a button. He has an EHCP and 1:1 support too.

Just to give you some positive hope, DS1 was very similar at this age and was diagnosed with dyspraxia at 7. He’s just been given an academic writing award in his second year at uni. If you’d told me this 14 years ago I would have been astonished! He really benefitted from teachers who didn’t go on and on about his handwriting or lack of content but instead boosted his confidence and praised him for the things he was good at ( like your DS, he had great verbal abilities and understanding). Has he tried working on a laptop instead of handwriting?

OP I can't tell you the amount of parents that get fobbed off by the schools senco and teachers. Immature is just not enough of a reason. You don't need maturity to complete school work. Plenty of immature kids without dyslexia and they don't struggle like this.
Dyslexic kids very often have good long term memory which explains him doing well with times tables as he's had lots of repetition, but he's not able to actually apply that knowledge.
EP- Educational Psychologist: They are able to diagnose various learning difficulties and their reports are used to get kids access to extra time etc. There are more and more Level 7 trained dyslexia assessors that can be cheaper but in your son's case I highly recommend an EP as they will be able to test a wider range of things.
SALT- Speech and Language therapist. A CELF-5 assessment will be able to show if he is having difficulties with various aspects of speech, not just spoken lang. Very often kids with dyslexia have co morbid speech difficulties, especially around processing their thoughts and advocating for themselves.
OT- Occupational Therapist: They'll be able to assess your child for dyspraxia. If your son's handwriting is bad, it is likely this is the cause. It can also have huge impacts on speech. You can Google some tests to give you an idea of what sort of thing they'll test. VMI-6, MABC-2 and Clinical Observations of Movement and Postural skills test are what OTs often use to test for Dyspraxia. You won't have access to these fully but you can Google the name plus examples of tests.

My daughter was Iike your son and she's now got an EHCP. The senco, head teacher and her teachers thought I was crazy until I got the results of her assessments, than they suggested a special school. A week before that they were threatening me with social services. You can imagine how vindicated I felt.

His reading is quite good. He's on lime book band. I think, like his times tables, he's learnt to read more by memory than phonetical understanding though. In his early phonics tests he always used to get the real words correct, but got the 'fake' words wrong. Does that make sense? So he can read a really difficult word because he recognises it or it makes sense in the context, but then couldn't read the name Diesel the other day - which I'd think he should be able to using his phonics, because it was a name and not talking about filling a car - in which case I think he'd have guessed it.

I have 3 DC with a variety of combinations of dyslexia/dyspraxia.

Also first thing I thought of-I think a teacher actually said it was a huge flag that DC knew and could verbalise answer but not get it on paper.
All were good readers.

Smart kids mask stuff.

All thrived post diagnosis.
Lots of things you can do including different fonts, different ways to learn, extra time etc

Good luck

@CallawayV Again OP, this is very common. He wont be flagged as he can decode but an EP will test the fluency of his reading and it'll likely be really low.
Additionally, if a Y3 child is 'too immature' to access work, thats a red flag in itself as this is far beyond the normal age of school readiness, even by continental Europe standards. Unfortunately your son is just not disruptive enough to take up any EP allocation the school has and unless you do this yourself, it's unlikely they'll do anything.

I would guess he is bright, but with a dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyspraxia learning difficulty.
Personally, ignore school - they will see he is making progress. Go and get an assessment with an Ed Psyc and find out what is going on.
DS was always "meets expectations" but could do so much better. He now has a laptop for some stuff, and printed out sheets rather than masses of copying. And is in top sets at secondary (including English), predicted high GCSE's. For him, meeting age related expectations wasn't meeting his potential.

I was just about to say dyspraxia. My DS had exactly the same issues, all through school. I hope that there is more support these days but IME asking school to keep an eye on things won’t be enough - you will need to be proactive.
I’d try though, because it’s awful for kids’ self esteem when they aren’t supported with their SEND.

Thank you all for your messages and suggestions. I emailed the school yesterday in the first instance to say I think he should be assessed and to get their views, and I am now researching independent EPs in my area - it seems a bit of a minefield but I'm determined to negotiate it!

I've also been researching activities and techniques which can help if you have dysgraphia, dyslexia and/or dyspraxia so I will start to bring some of these in slowly for him so he doesn't cotton on to anything too drastic happening!

Thank you all again for your help. I'm hoping I can use your advice to support my son into being a happier, more confident lad.

In the meantime, ways to allow him to get thoughts onto paper without him having to physically write them may really boost his confidence. This could be dictation software on a laptop to produce a typed output, or simply someone scribing for him.

In an assessment situation in school, I would be tempted to ask for the school to give him a scribe (this is an allowed adaptation in SATs if applied for) and see how that impacts his results. It allows both him and his teachers to differentiate between what he can do / what he knows and what he can write. Not possible for spelling tests, but allowed in eg Reading or Maths assessments.