Stomach Bugs - Reasonable Prevention by School, yes or no?

[LoopyMumbot]

Hi there
Two of my sons have had 8 individual episodes of vomiting since Xmas (sorry to those to whom this is TMI). Now I think that is excessive. Does anyone else? The trouble is I have PTSD relating to a previous incident years back so it's very triggering for me. AND the very unfortunate combination of a (pre-diagnosis) 10 year old autistic child who never know when he is going to be sick - so this can and does create disasters for me. The headteacher says that they DO use bleach to clean up (essential if it's a case of norovirus) but... a class teacher told me yesterday that they don't and they are only allowed to use disinfectant. So if they are using bleach then that obviously doesn't happen until the cleaners come in at the end of the day. Better than nothing, but there's the whole day where norovirus could spread. Does anyone have any thoughts on this please?

If parents aren't able to prevent it, or care homes etc, it's v v difficult to expect schools to do so!

Vomiting can be caused by things other than norovirus. Even things like a heavy cold.

I would be ruling out dietary factors, allergies etc before jumping to norovirus. Eg my son reacts badly to cordial and it makes him
vomit (only certain flavours). Same for if he plays minecraft for too long weirdly!

Teach your children to wash their hands and not to put their fingers in their mouth.

If you're so worried - use the laundry cleaner which disinfects uniform and wash every night (you'll need loads of uniform though!)

There's not a lot schools can do. I worked as a HLTA and it was somehow my job to clear up vomit. We all do our best.

Water fountains are often the culprit. Does your school have one?

Also use pro biotics. These help build an immune system. That's what our pead consultant told us.

£10.50 from boots. Strawberry flavour chewy tablets. They've made a difference to DC

Bleach is a disinfectant - it just works in a different way.
Frankly, either chemical ASAP would be my preference.

Thanks (everyone actually) for your replies. I'm not suggesting it was noro each time, just that I know for a fact that disinfectant won't kill that. Was wondering if anyone has any insight re. their schools? I just think this is happening too often?

Yes, thanks, I know. The thing is that disinfectant won't kill everything. For eg noro is completely resistant to it which is why you have to use bleach for that (or Hypochlorous Acid which is the active ingredient in products such as Aquaint and I make it myself with a Toucan Eco bought from Robert Scott (Google for Info. Hypochlorous is amaaazing and I would recommend it to all Mums)). I just would like to know thoughts on what schools to do clean up to mitigate spread...

Thanks, my sons are ninja handwashers, I will ask about any water fountain that's a good thought. We use probiotics - not all are created equal it seems so we just use the one that we can afford. Thanks for the recommendation on them too though.

8 instances each in 2.5 months would indicate some cross infection at home and/or other reasons for sickness. It seems excessive. My DCs only had 2 or 3 each during their whole time at school.

@LoopyMumbot did you know that we can become temporarily lactose intolerant after a bug? I wonder if this has happened to yours. I had it for a year before it cleared up. Wet dairy was worse!

Thanks, it's 4 each = 8 in total since Xmas. No cross contamination at home and what with my disabilities and children's habit of getting ill they only ever go to school and my Mums... plus on many of the occasions I know who they picked the bugs up from at school and others at school were ill at the same time. Which is why I can be confident they're acquiring these bugs from school. I know some degree of this is normal... but it just seems to be happening too much?

Thanks for replying. Yes, I discovered that one from my GP. Luckily doesn't apply here... So sorry this has happened to you, what a massive pain for you. I didn't include my son's oat intolerance (yes, oat, specific right?) in his 4 throw ups, we've had that too....sigh...It has returned due to one of the bugs. He's been on an oat free diet ever since and we keep a food diary, so it's not food... Thanks again.

The school can ring whatever public health is now called for advice. They are supposed to do this if there is an outbreak of vomitting. The threshold for an outbreak is fairly low. They talk the school through what to do.
Its not clear whether its just your child getting sick, or whether there are waves of infection going round classes.

The advice tends to be to be to wash high frequency touch points with a bleach based cleaner, to wash hands more frequently and to do more end of day cleaning of toys. I have never been advised to close or do a deep clean, although one round of norovirus was so close to the end of term we booked in a deep clean anyway.

Schools will be very limited in the chemicals they can use. Whatever they will be using won't be as strong as you can use at home, but will be used to clean up the vomit but may not actually kill whatever bacteria, like noro, that is in there.
They are being reasonable as they will be using whatever they are able to, but it won't be like what you are using at home.

What’s their diet like op? Apparently (I only heard this on the radio a while back) a lot of the body’s immune system is in the gut? Are they eating a wide variety of different coloured fruit and veg for example? Are they eating too much beige food?

Have there been any threadworm infestations at the school? Apparently Ovex or equivalent can destroy the good bacteria in your gut as well as the parasites. I should add that I’ve no personal experience of this so don’t know for sure, but a fellow parent mentioned it. And I saw it mentioned on here too.

Is there a possibility you are using too much bleach or disinfectant at home so they haven’t built up resistance?

Are they eating school dinners? What are the hygiene practices like in the school kitchen?

Have you ever visited one of the school lavatories out of hours during a parents evening for example? I did this because our dds were all avoiding drinking at school, because they didn’t want to pee and be forced to use the horrible loos. Is there running water? Enough hand towels?

Is there a bullying problem at the school so your dc are either nor daring to go to the loo, or are they stressed for that or any other reason?

Are your dc getting enough sleep?

I don’t think you can do much with the school except join the PA and lobby the powers that be to look in to the matter? We lobbied our head teacher to upgrade the school lavatories after the pandemic.

Presumably if many dc are having lots of time off and damaging attendance records then it soon becomes their problem too? Have you talked to other parents to see if they are experiencing lots of vomiting bugs too?

Other than that, you might just have vomity dc! All dc are different and some do vomit every time they get a temperature and others not so much?

Good luck, I hope you get to the bottom of it. You never know, it might just be post-pandemic lack of immunity and you are over the worst now!

@Noodlesandfriedrice65 thank you, particularly, for your thoughtful and caring answer. There's a good lot of suggestions for me to look into there. I have just made a breakthrough actually. I have asked the school numerous times about how they clean and I have just come across the official government guidelines for schools, published by the UK Health Security Agency (what used to be HPA) and our school is not doing this stuff! Apparently they ARE instructed to use dilute bleach in a clean up situation according to this doc. I have sent the doc to the headteacher... I hope we now get somewhere! Thanks again

Btw op. For your autistic son who can’t always get to a loo in time: maybe invest in some clumping cat litter? It makes clearing up a lot less traumatic! Cover vomit with generous amount of cat litter (had to be clumping variety) and leave to soak up. Then brush away using plastic washable dustpan and washable plastic paddle. Then disinfect floor with Dettol after that?

has to be

@Noodlesandfriedrice65 Good tip, thanks for that, will have to get some. I am trying to see if there's a relevant thread for his particular issue. May have to start one. Am not very clued up with how the website works tbh! Thanks for talking to me, means a lot.

Are you sure they don;t have allergies to something? That is a lot and does not seem normal. I have 3 dc and usually a vomit bug happens once a year when they first start nursery/school, then happens less and less. Some kids can vomit if they have allergy to different foods like eggs, nuts, wheat etc.

No problem LoopyMumbot - it is really
stressful when your dc are ill.

@SamPoodle123 Thanks, yeah, that's how it was for me when I was a kid, it was way less frequent. That's all I could compare this to before I thought of coming on here. Am grateful to you for confirming my thoughts. I know the other schools in my town were contending with the last bug too but the amount of illness going round otherwise feels too much.

@LoopyMumbot I even feel like the frequency my kids got sick was too much. Growing up, I had one tummy bug age 6 and that was it. Never vomited after for like 20 years! But here it seems things go around more.

The headteacher says that they DO use bleach to clean up (essential if it's a case of norovirus) but... a class teacher told me yesterday that they don't and they are only allowed to use disinfectant.

My friend is a lunchtime supervisor at one school and a cleaner at two schools. She tells me that they are not allowed to use bleach at all at any of the schools. They have a powder they shake over any biological mess, which soaks up the liquid, and is then swept up, bagged and binned. They use 'disinfectant' surface cleaners, sprays and wipes. But not bleach. Occasionally she goes rogue on a Friday evening if she is the last one out, and whips out her secret bottle of bleach for the urinals, sink wastes and high-touch spots.

@WashAsDelicates Good for her! I see from the Health and Safety Executive guidelines for gastroenteritis that all schools should be using bleach for incident clean ups ... and yet they don't! It's no wonder our kids get ill. Think of the effect on the nation's economy let alone my sanity! Grrrrrr!!!