Stomach Bugs - Reasonable Prevention by School, yes or no?

[LoopyMumbot]

Hi there
Two of my sons have had 8 individual episodes of vomiting since Xmas (sorry to those to whom this is TMI). Now I think that is excessive. Does anyone else? The trouble is I have PTSD relating to a previous incident years back so it's very triggering for me. AND the very unfortunate combination of a (pre-diagnosis) 10 year old autistic child who never know when he is going to be sick - so this can and does create disasters for me. The headteacher says that they DO use bleach to clean up (essential if it's a case of norovirus) but... a class teacher told me yesterday that they don't and they are only allowed to use disinfectant. So if they are using bleach then that obviously doesn't happen until the cleaners come in at the end of the day. Better than nothing, but there's the whole day where norovirus could spread. Does anyone have any thoughts on this please?

Can you post a link to these guidelines, please?

I have emetephobia. It’s really tough when sickness hits, we’ve just had a bug in the house and it was exhausting from an anxiety perspective. But honestly, I can’t bring myself to get cross at school. It’s not their fault. If parents send kids to school before the 48 hour cut off, it’ll go round. Same as coughs, colds etc. Our school had a nasty stomach bug going round last year & they did have a deep clean once we got to October half term!

Its worth bearing in mind that because of covid, kids immune systems aren’t what they should be & there’s been a real whiplash affect of every other virus becoming very prevalent amongst kids.

Do your kids do stuff outside school? Because you can never be sure it’s school they are catching it from. Mine go to various after school activities, softplay, play dates, birthday parties, swimming. You could pick up any virus from any of those places & often there is a 48 hour incubation period.

Phobias & traumas are really tough. But it’s part & parcel of having kids and them socialising & going to school. It’ll calm down as we head into spring & summer!

Does the school have a sensible policy regarding sickness during and after episodes? Or are they encouraging attendance at all costs?

I remember working in a nursery years ago and they were using dettol to clear up sick. It wasn't until I pointed it out to them and showed them the guidance that this was useless, that they changed to cleaning with diluted bleach. I think lots of people believe that dettol is sufficient.

@WashAsDelicates Here is the link which I found by Googling for my county, but I've noticed other County Councils link to it and it is from the HSA

https://schools.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/sites/schools/files/folders/folders/documents/coronavirus/TVGIOutbreakGuidance.pdf

@Bobbins5467 Wow... you have emetophobia and you manage to let your kids do all of those things outside of school? You must be doing well, well done. Mine are ill so frequently (through no fault of mine I assure you/ everyone) that it puts me right off, as much as I would love them to do stuff. Re. your comment about the seasons, I spend all Autumn and Winter trying to put a brave face on things and looking forward to the better months, am hanging in there!

@BungleandGeorge They have pushed the attendance message, yes, but do want people to stick to the 48hr rule. Am pleased we have had some emails recently alerting parents to a higher than average number of ill pupils and that people need to remember the 48hr rule. (Pleased, and somewhat scared with it!)

@3WildOnes yes... you would have thought they would have done their research. Dettol is ok an a disinfectant, though pricey, but isn't going to cut it in these situations when you don't know what's caused the kid to be ill (and likely never will know)...

It's possible you have lowered their natural immunity by being over Zealous with the bleach and hand washing. You have to have contact with some bugs to build it. In lockdown nobody came across bugs so once they mixed they got ill you've just delayed that

@jannier thanks for the thought but l only use a bleach equivalent (see above) when cleaning during a 'situation' at home. My house is far from spotless, we have tonnes of clutter like a normal busy family home (most of us collect stuff too!) and l wash the floors only when l can be bothered (obviously worktops etc are done daily). So all pretty relaxed and normal really. I'm not a clean freak but l do know how to knock sick bugs dead on entry! And yeah, we had an awful Winter the one before last just like everyone else with every conceivable illness... Last Winter was marginally better.

I also suffer from emetaphobia and my kids do all sorts of activities....soft play, parties, play dates, sleepovers, loads of sports, art etc (basically something every day!). I used to freak all the time, but learned to let go and they also all feel carsick so that really drove me mad. My youngest actually vomits after only 20 mins in the car. I have gotten less effect by it now that she is 3 and has learned to do it in a bag. I learned there is no stopping the bugs, so you can not hide from them and your dc need to live their lives.

@SamPoodle123 Thanks for all your comments x l am hoping things will feel easier at home once we have done some building work to add a second loo (in a new shower room). At the moment all 5 of us share one loo so l think that's partly why l fear bugs because it's logistically a problem as well as emotionally. If you have any tips for what helped you to adjust then perhaps you could PM/DM me them, if you can think of anything (not to worry if not). To explain, l have PTSD.... Oh and don't worry my children do get to do activities as a family out and about with me.

Following with interest as I’m going through this with my dc. We’ve had 4 separate occasions since September and 3 before school summer holidays. I also feel very traumatised ( another one with emetaphobia) by it and even worse it wipes my child out for days and I really worry. I don’t think it’s allergy related as def behaves like norovirus/ stomach bug, I’ve asked for a paeds referral. I wonder whether it is covid related as this has only been happening since lockdown.

Oh yea, that will help majorly. That is one big thing that helps me is we have multiple bathrooms. In fact I am able to set up camp for the kids in the bathroom if they feel sick. We jokingly call it the panic station. My ds actually says he does not mind when he is sick bc he is treated like a king lol. Basically, I put a baby matress in there, with ipad, soft lighting and fetch them water or whatever they need. They must stay in there until they are done. So confined to one spot. It only really works when old enough. My youngest does not stay put. But at least she has learned to vomit in a bag or potty so that helps. I used to bleach and clean like crazy if a dc was sick, but it does not stop the others from catching so I am laid back now. What helps is when they are older. Now my older two dont catch it, but the youngest will catch from the others. I am also strict with after the vomit, BRAT diet only when they are feeling hungry and if they keep it down then we can slowly move on. Being somewhat in control and having a plan helps a lot.

My granddaughter needed two hospital admissions and two doses of ondansetron to break a cycle of sickness recently. She was vomiting for two weeks in total. Her hospital admissions were both in the second week of vomiting.

She's always been on the slight side but looks painfully thin after this last bout of sickness. She looks skeletal.

Traces of a coli infection were found when she was tested. She just had vomiting and not diarrhoea.

She seems to get a lot of bouts of vomiting but thankfully they usually last 24-48 hrs. These don't seem to be passed onto other family members. Her mother nor myself have caught these bugs whilst looking after her.

She refuses to use the toilets in school as she says they are dirty.

Her mother does worry about her attendance record - she seems to miss one or two days each half term. When she first started in nursery she barely had a full week attendance up until school stopped due to covid.

I'll suggest the probiotics to her mum.

I'm not sure the school is really at fault here. If the other children are getting ill at the same rate as yours, their attendance rate must be absolutely on the floor. Like, bad enough that it could trigger Ofsted. Are all or even most children really getting as ill as yours? If not, the school is probably treating it as any other winter season in which bugs are always going round and not doing any special cleaning programmes. Your children have caught a sickness bug on average once every 3 weeks - isn't that more of a signal to go the doctor than blame the school?

I work in a primary school, no bleach allowed. I would guess the teachers might not be aware of that but if you ask the caretakers, office or midday staff they'll tell you.

If you ring The Uk Health Security Agency during an outbreak they tell you to use bleach until the outbreak has passed. Its like special permission. An outbreak has a really low threshold, like 3 kids off within a few dsys of each other. You ring they ask a load of question and they say move to using bleach.

There are 2 issues here, the schools cleaning protocol and your DCs catching bugs at school.

The cleaning protocol can be addressed and should, however that’s not necessarily going to stop your DCs getting sick, they have probably been exposed even before the other child vomits. For all of my DCs there have been times that it felt like we had just got them healthy only to go back to school and come home with another vomiting bug. Schools can’t prevent cross contamination for other children unless we go back to lockdown rules. They also can’t do anything if parents don’t stick to the 48hour vomiting and diarrhoea rules, or send their children into school knowing they are coming down with something.

Good to know I am not alone in how I am feeling! xxx So sorry to hear this, if it helps (albeit oddly) mine have been worse, I've only quoted the times since Xmas... I think the number of times you've had bugs is likely to be the seasonal Winter pattern, just a little more. Not that that helps much, sorry. 3 before the school Summer hols though? Now that one is hard... I know that the bugs never go away but there's usually far less chance of them in the Summer months (please NO stories of any horrendous Summer bugs you have had people reading this... my brain is looking forward to a rest from stressing so much over the Summer thanks)

@SamPoodle123 Hi, thanks for the info. about your Panic Station! We do a similar thing here only, with just one loo, the poorly one has to stay on their bed with a bucket. I bring them everything they need, supervise visits to the loo etc. So, does it really get better as they get older? Think I am reading this from what you are saying?

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche Gosh, poor child!! I would be seeking medical help after no more than 5 days if it were me (partly as my nerves probably would need the reassurance). I would definitely recommend probiotics to build up their immune system. In amongst the bugs we have had here I have had some reports of the dc's classmates faring worse (symptoms going on longer d aswell as v etc) and so I am grateful mine are on probiotics to boost them a bit. Makes me wonder what would happen if I could find better probiotics actually. But that subject is confusing - more expensive isn't always better when you read the ingredient labels...One to be aware of.

@HubertTheGoat Thanks, I am so grateful for everyone's contributions here. Well, basically the school are burying their heads in the sand. But they have a meeting with the local authority to discuss the use of cleaning fluids soon (apparently I am not the only one who has enquired). Why they can't just follow the protocol (see my link above) I really have no idea!

@AliceMcK Thanks, yes, I just feel like if they followed the bug protocol they would be doing all that is reasonably possible and that would significantly reduce the risk of cross-contamination. Otherwise, my husband and I just feel like our family is constantly paying the price for their lax attitude. And if there's one thing I can't stand it's being powerless in the face of carelessness.... ok that maybe a bit harsh... Very grateful for everyone's input here.

It's especially bad this year (reported to be a 77% increase) due to the fact that we haven't been exposing our immune systems to it thanks to the pandemic and social distancing.

It's not done any of our immune systems any favours, nor has the excessive use of antibacterial products.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/norovirus-cases-increase-significantly-in-england