School - can’t get staff or volunteers

[Mactaser]

Outstanding primary school in a ‘very noice’ part of town.

Currently the school can’t get anyone to chair the PTA despite numerous requests.

Similarly, school struggled to replace outgoing governors, nobody ran and several people were approached before they found someone.

Staff turnover is high across all areas.

Is this a post-Covid phenomenon that is impacting all schools?

Why don't you do it?

Oh, you can't afford to. There you go. That's why. Everyone's skint.

Stop paying TAs etc a pathetic amount and you'll get many applicants.

True. But where is the money coming from?

I feel like parents supporting their own child’s education is probably the most helpful thing they can do. Read to your child daily, hear them read, limit screen time, have your child do a little bit of schoolwork on most days in the holidays. If everyone did this, teachers’ lives would be less stressful.

I have noticed in the 10+ years I have been doing school runs, that there seems to be less SAHM types and more "drop kicking" the kid through the school gates and dashing off to work types.

It used to be you couldn't get out the school for the groups of Mum stood leisurely talking, now everyone is on a mad dash to get out and off to work (myself now included).

The fact more parents have to work, and SAHM is a thing of the past as the "norm" there just isn't the parents available to do the PTA or volunteer.

I think many people are worried/anxious owing to COL crisis. This means they don't have the energy to volunteer there time. Also high (paid) staff turnover is almost always owing to poor management.

I'm not sure if this is solely primary but if this is secondary too I'm so annoyed because actually there are loads of schools in Cornwall desperate for staff.

NEU Cornwall recently surveyed it's members and found that 61% of them work in schools with unfilled vacancies - both teachers and support staff. Secondary schools struggle to recruit staff for a wide range of posts and primary definitely struggle to recruit support staff.

I was told by a head that the county was short 25 maths teachers last year, which doesn't sound like a lot but is about every other school last year. But I believe it's got worse this year.

My previous school was in West Cornwall, and couldn't recruit for maths, science, geography, mfl, DT. In one case, they had someone lined up for one of the jobs and then she couldn't find housing locally.

I've moved schools to a much cheaper area (still within the south west) because the cost of rent was too high. And I'm told a lot of people do the same. This part of the south west is seen as a much less desirable area, so teachers and TAs can actually afford to live here.

It's true this used to be the case pre pandemic, but the absolute boom in air BnB now makes it very hard to find rental accommodation, which makes it much harder to move from our of county. When I first interviewed in Cornwall it was common to get 10+ applicants for science jobs (very good at the time). Now it's common to get none.

I also know rural primary schools often struggle for TAs because now the commute isn't financially viable.

If you don't believe me then have a look at the DfE job website for Cornwall. You'll see some jobs posted month after month, not because multiple staff are leaving but because they can't get anyone to apply, especially mid year.

Btw OP, I am guessing your school is somewhere where it's quite expensive to live.

If rent is too high, you won't attract ECTs/lower main scale teachers as they'll decide it's too expensive to live in the area. If there's a high turnover of staff then experienced teachers will often stear clear.

And if both parents have to work full time, then it can be hard to find governors and PTA - it is a big time commitment.

When do governors meet. Is it at a time working parents can attend?

All out PTA work full time. It is very stressful. We struggle to fulfil the roles. Then you hear whispers of why don’t they do that and moaning from other parents- many of whom don’t seem to have the same work or caring commitments. It’s a thankless task.

There are a lot of governance involved in the PTA and you do need to be switched on. That also puts people off.

I live in an affluent area of London. It is increasingly difficult to attract and keep staff. It is not just about pay teacher's pay, it is lack of flexibility in working conditions and a stressful working environment. I always appear on here when posters are having a go at schools and teachers. So many parents are unbelievably entitled and expect so much from schools and staff. They are vociferous in their demand for work from home and their considerable rights with regards to working conditions. Parents are up in arms if their children are not allowed out of a class to go to the loo in lesson time. Yet they don't give a passing thought to the fact that it is a sackable offence for a teacher to leave the class if there is not an appropriate adult to act as a class supervisor in their absence.
Everyone on MN appears to want the NHS and Schools on their terms. It is not going to get easier to appoint teachers or nurses. Not when the traditional female teacher demographic no longer wants family unfriendly, challenging jobs when they can pick up a cosy wfh job. Every week there are posters on here who ask for tips in wfh whilst caring for young children.
It is just not sustainable. Goodness knows what the future holds for teacher and nurse recruitment.

Agree, particularly when you look at Sen, outstanding ofsted school often equals bad for Sen support

Pretty much exactly the same at our school. Haven't had a PTA chair since before Covid, no one wants the responsibility.

hollow laugh
I worked at an FE college where what Ofsted inspectors saw was so stage-managed they could have sold tickets for it.
There is also a huge 'Ofsted readiness' industry. Inspectors working as consultants, FE bosses working as Ofsted inspectors... that is the tip of the iceberg. * *

@IDontWantToBeAPie 10+ years of volunteering across preschool and school here, while also working. Post-covid and perimenopause mean I no longer have the mental or physical energy. I thought that newer parents would replace the older cohort but it hasn’t happened.

Is the PTA mostly about community-building, fund-raising, or both? There might be ways to try and do things in a way that does not involve so much volunteering or committee-staffing, or perhaps I am just a hopeless optimist....

I volunteered in one of the roles op mentions for 4 years. Since I stopped my (low) freelance earnings have doubled, which fortunately has covered the bulk of the cost of living rises for the household.

No way could I afford the time to volunteer again now.

It’s more likely that far fewer TA positions are coming as when they leave, schools aren’t replacing them.

Schools can’t give TA roles to volunteers because there is a lot more that TAs are needed to do than volunteers are able to do. Primary TAs are regularly expected to teach whole classes for example, that would never be expected of a volunteer.

Its understandable that when TA positions do come up the applicants who have volunteered previously will get the job because they already know the staff, the children, the way the school works and they have already shown commitment to that school.

Same happening in ohr primary school.
Newer parents aren't replacing the outgoing parents in volunteering roles.
Whether that is because they haven't seen and experienced enough PTA run events due to pandemic and therefore don't understand the impact of PTA or whether its due to economic times, or just a generational/social difference in attitudes towards volunteering.. who knows? Mayne a bit of all of them

It's also worth bearing in mind a lot of people are picking up second jobs, or working around their partners to avoid childcare costs.

All these things make volunteering for the PTA or being a governor really difficult.

As others have mentioned, a "Friends of XX School" association and making the whole thing open to grandparents and retired people might help. The reality is that most parents of school aged children are severely time crunched and SAHMs are rarer than ever before.

Yes, COVID will have had an impact.

Majority people can’t afford to be a SAHM anymore. Pension is dire. Bills are going up. Life is hard. At least can wfh now and go office 1-3 days a week, which helps.. People do drop off and pick ups too (they use their lunch hour).

Lots of women are highly educated
/professional (as they should be), they have well paying jobs also.. Only need childcare when they’re at Nursery really.

I take my lunch 8:00-8:30 then 3:30-4:00. If emergency comes up, I can quickly log in and fix/deal with it. Not a big issue.

DH works from home a lot too, so can split drop off/pick ups aswell likewise with other household chores.

Governors is a fairly thankless task to be honest. We can recruit co-opted governors but we have to advertise on linkdin, facebbook commuity pages and be clear about the skills needed. Getting parent governors is much harder. Used to be mums thinking sbout returning to work and thinking it might help their cv. Now places remain vacant for ages.

PTA still active.

TAs hard. Who can afford to do a low paid job, term time only, increasinly only for the mornings.

Older women used to form the backbone of so many important voluntary roles but now the state pension age for women has risen from 60 to 67, women have to have their own NI contributions (I agree with this) and many people have to combine full time paid work with caring for relatives 80, 90, 100…or helping out with grandchildren. There is less time in their lives for voluntary roles.

I got a dinner out, a certificate and £150 voucher from my LA for 25 years service but they don't do it any more. The school is an academy now anyway. There was also an award for 40 years service but they weren't usually teachers.

Outstanding at paperwork.