School - can’t get staff or volunteers

[Mactaser]

Outstanding primary school in a ‘very noice’ part of town.

Currently the school can’t get anyone to chair the PTA despite numerous requests.

Similarly, school struggled to replace outgoing governors, nobody ran and several people were approached before they found someone.

Staff turnover is high across all areas.

Is this a post-Covid phenomenon that is impacting all schools?

Me too.
Good Ofsted doesn't mean good school

Schools struggle to appoint admin staff/pastoral staff because they expect someone to walk in, fully qualified, experienced, great IT skills, and then want to pay them just over minimum wage, term time only, not offer family friendly hours (eg working til 5 so paying 2 hours childcare for your own children every day, when you are only on a 39wk contract so although ‘full time’ you aren’t full time at all) and then once they are in post they add multiple, permanent jobs to their job spec that are well above their pay grade. People leave and don’t get replaced, but their roles are then distributed among everyone else (because those simplest of pastoral roles are often the crisis aversion Roles- first aid, upset children- that while they don’t take ‘skills’ as such, they cannot be ignored. More skilled roles have to stop what they are doing to deal with these crises, sometimes upwards of 10/15 + times a day)
These People, often women, are then treated like shit by parents, a lot of the staff, leadership, trusts because they are just ‘the girls in the office’ and no one respects the fact that without them, the entire operation of the school from admissions, lunches, payroll, safeguarding, first aid, all communications with parents, trips, getting children out safely in a fire, administering medicines, exams - would literally grind to a halt. You can get a supply teacher from an agency to deliver a planned lesson using resources provided- try getting an exams officer, or an attendance officer who can know the intricacy of DFE or JCQ guidance, issue legal documentation etc, from an agency. Non existent.

I was a school attendance officer and I had 38 items/tasks on my job spec, 30 of which were required to be completed daily and/or weekly for 1000 children, I also had to cover the 25 items of my assistant who was a vacant post for 7 months (so I did 2 full time jobs for 7 months) - with no help, no support, most days I didn’t even get a lunch break or a drink of water. My take home pay was £1100 a month before paying any childcare. I worked from 7.30 every day, weekends, holidays. I was a broken mess when I resigned, and they didn’t even say goodbye or give me a card.

I now work from home for a charity, for £8k a year more. It’s a no-brainer. The private/charity sector can compete so much more now for working parents with wfh and other options for flexible agile working. Schools need to massively raise the bar.

As for volunteering - it's utterly thankless and all you get is shit from people who would never themselves do it

I spent years volunteering for things and got fuck all thanks for it. They get very short shrift now when I get asked.

It’s a large commuter town in the south east. The school has always been oversubscribed with a huge waitlist each year.

The joke used to be that because so many teachers wanted to move to the SW just before retirement, that you'd have to mow someone down in the carpark to get a teaching job in Cornwall. This is from grads of Exeter Uni back in the day.

We're always way oversubscribed too. Midlands, small town.

@thenewaveragebear1983 I'm so sorry that happened to you (but not surprised - apart from no card!!)

Oh, and here (home counties sort of), recruitment is very difficult. All types of schools, in lots of different types of communities, are struggling for TAs, teachers, admin and SENDCOs. It's a bit thankless at the minute tbh. Support the strikes.

Re PTA and Governors - people read MN and see what a thankless task it is.

I work in a sector linked to education and I would say that yes there is a noticeable issue with recruitment. Moreso since covid and Brexit.

Re the PTA. I think the whole model of (mostly) women giving up huge amounts of time for free needs to be thought about.

The PTA won’t be able to recruit because it’s the shittiest job going. I did my 2 years and then fucked it off, we ran regular discos - fairs - non uniform days and could pull a fair amount fundraising.

However….. Most parents attitudes where we are (affluent) are vile, entitled and ungrateful.

Never again.

Yes, goodwill is a two way gesture - otherwise it becomes the road to hell.

Exactly, Tortola.

I support teachers' strikes for better conditions and completely agree that government underfunding of the education system is an underlying cause of a lot of the problems, but I am also very mindful of the fact that supply teachers DID NOT get the same back from teachers with permanent or fixed-term posts in schools.
And neither did the TAs, when they went on strikes over changes to their pay and conditions, in my local authority in 2016.

It's a similar situation for agency workers in the rest of the workplace. How do they feel listening to the moans and groans of other workers who have far more security and rights than they do?

I know some posters will think I'm coming across as bitter, but how can you not be, after having all of your efforts for several years as a volunteer and a paid educator not valued or appreciated in any meaningful way!

Lucylock makes a good point of the era of (mostly) women's goodwill and kindnesses being expected for nothing starting to come to an end. And about time too.

@Piggywaspushed

Just a certificate they made her and gave her in assembly. Nothing fancy 😂

@JanglyBeads South Yorkshire. It was an admin position, don’t know pay details.

Yeah I’m not sure that’s a general problem. It could be the area or it could be the management.

My children are in an Outstanding primary in an affluent area and don’t have issues with volunteers or staff currently. Obviously this could change but right now they have plenty of volunteers including PTA and parent governors and long standing members of staff (thankfully).

How do they feel listening to the moans and groans of other workers who have far more security and rights than they do?

Nearly all the supply teachers I know are doing it through choice and know what they've 'given up' in order to do supply. Both the positives and negatives. I've resigned my permanent job and will be supply in September. Full time guys can moan and groan as much as they like, but I'm walking out at 3.30.

It's so true... maybe we need a thread for the Positives to encourage people to get involved rather than put them off further.!

I made some amazing friends being on the PTA and my involvement really helped my DD settle into the (primary) school.
I also benefitted by getting to know the leadership team well, amongst many other staff, which can be really helpful and is just nice!

Rule, that point was more about agency workers in the worplace in large, but sorry if you misunderstood.

Workplace, sorry.

I'm a L3 TA and work in a deprived area. I actually really enjoy my job. Staff generally get along fine. The Head is so down to earth, he cleans tables at lunchtime and does everything usually the cleaner or TAs would be directed to do in his suit.
He's always walking around school. He is always 'present' and available.
That's what I call a good head and though it's in a deprived area, it's a happy school where we all muck along. I've been in many ' outstanding' schools is affluent areas where TAs, dinner staff and cleaners are treated like muck.

“Can’t be arsed” is a bit of a rude way to put it. Most people find it very hard to volunteer for these roles for the same reason your teaching staff can’t do it - because it would be on top of a busy full time job. Parents have jobs too, for the most part.

Definitely. More and more women are working full time, we have a cost of living crisis, longer life expectancies mean many of us are supporting elderly relatives as well.

I don't volunteer, stopped when mine were in about year four or five. I thought a lot of the volunteering was funding stuff the government should rightly be funding. I also became uncomfortable at tapping other parents for contributions of time, energy, resources or money that followed from helping out at x event or y bingo night. Plus the gendered dimension really grated. Women did the bulk, men turned up to cook the sausages on the BBQs. It was like the 1950s writ large. Also, I had a busy working and social life and didn't want or need close involvement in my kids' day to day schooling. Educational support, yes absolutely. Getting to know teachers personally and being present in school multiple times per week.... No ta.

I chair the parent voice group. We have 1500 on roll. 6 parents came to the last meeting.

@MrsHamlet were any of them PTA/governors, it’s usually the same parents who come to our meetings?

We don't have a PTA. It was disbanded years ago because everything fell on the same few parents and staff.
One is a governor. They do everything.
I don't blame people for not getting involved. It's hard.