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Primary education

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Original poster

Positively surprised about ds school experience in the UK

59 replies

Rhombus79 · 03/03/2023 14:56

I am curious to know how others who grew up in another country are finding the British education system.

Ds is in Year 1 at the moment and I am quite surprised how much moaning there is on the parents' WhatsApp group about the teachers, about the curriculum, about the amount of homework, etc. I find it hard to relate to be honest.

To be fair, I can only compare it to my own school experiences growing up in East Germany, where school was quite strict and expectations high. I spent many a Sunday evening crying because I was worried not to be able to keep up.

But I feel ds is getting a very rounded education with lots of rewards to keep him motivated. The teachers and teaching assistants are lovely and very approachable and ds likes them a lot. The school is even offering little workshops for the parents to learn about how they teach phonics or timetables. So far, I have a very happy 6 year old who loves going to school and who made huge strides since starting reception. That might just be our experience and others have some serious gripes with the system as it is. I just feel that a lot of parents at my ds school are undervaluing all the hard work that goes into educating their children and nothing is ever good enough.

What do you think?

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bagelbagelbagel · 03/03/2023 19:15

ZeldaB · 03/03/2023 16:04

Well I’m glad to hear that 21st century Britain is an improvement on 20th century East Germany.

I very rarely LOL but I did at this!

TeenDivided · 03/03/2023 19:16

CeliaNorth · 03/03/2023 19:11

.....in detention for forgetting a pencil.

You're a teacher and you've planned your lesson so that in the second half your pupils will be doing a timed paper and pencil exercise to check their understanding of what you've been teaching in the first half, and practice working to a time limit. The exercise is ready on the whiteboard. One third of your pupils are ready with paper and pencils waiting to start. One third are making a performance of turning out their bags looking for their pencils. One third are calling out 'Miss, Miss, I haven't got a pencil.' Meanwhile the time you had set aside for the test is ticking away, and the children who did come prepared and ready to learn are missing out.

What do you do? And the next day when the same thing happens, what do you do? And again the next day?

Have a pot of bright pink pencils that are embossed 'stolen from Mrs Smith' on them?

DD's secondary had a stamp system, not having a pencil would have meant missing a stamp and a letter code for missing equipment. More than 3? in a week would mean detention.

MarshaBradyo · 03/03/2023 19:16

I went to school o/s and tbh the whole school system is modelled on U.K. anyway so what struck me was oh yeh I can see where it all came from

Especially the private schools there that keep similar traditions

We’ve had good experiences with state (and private) in U.K. with schools parents move to be near.

bagelbagelbagel · 03/03/2023 19:17

I love both of my childrens' schools. DC1 is at a special school and has a personalised curriculum. They could not do more for him there, he is safe, loved and happy. DC2 is in Year R at mainstream and it's fantastic. My only slight niggle is they push phonics a bit too hard given the kids' ages, but that will be a plus point for some parents.

garlictwist · 03/03/2023 19:27

I went to collect my nieces from school yesterday (no kids myself) and I was struck by how warm and engaging the environment was compared to my primary school in the 80s.

The outside space was amazing and well equipped, well thought out classroom and cloakroom. In my day we had a big piece of concrete as a playground and a few porta cabins.

Sleepless1096 · 03/03/2023 20:06

CeliaNorth · 03/03/2023 19:11

.....in detention for forgetting a pencil.

You're a teacher and you've planned your lesson so that in the second half your pupils will be doing a timed paper and pencil exercise to check their understanding of what you've been teaching in the first half, and practice working to a time limit. The exercise is ready on the whiteboard. One third of your pupils are ready with paper and pencils waiting to start. One third are making a performance of turning out their bags looking for their pencils. One third are calling out 'Miss, Miss, I haven't got a pencil.' Meanwhile the time you had set aside for the test is ticking away, and the children who did come prepared and ready to learn are missing out.

What do you do? And the next day when the same thing happens, what do you do? And again the next day?

If you go in all guns blazing for the small stuff, sanctions like detention become so commonplace that they lose their fear factor with even usually well-behaved children.

JassyRadlett · 03/03/2023 20:13

Unexpecteddrivinginstructor · 03/03/2023 18:58

Although don't forget that the UK starts at 4, so they start maths and English early. Plus it depends on your child. Two of mine have really benefitted from being able to specialise early and perhaps would not do so well in a system looking for more general skills. There is also the IB which is good for those wanting a more general sixth form education, I think it is good that there is choice in the system.

Show quote history

I'm not sure 6 months at the age of 4 (compared to eg the Queensland system) makes up for two fewer years ages 16-18. 😁😁

Only 23 state schools offer the IB so not much in the way of choice! And meanwhile basic numeracy in the adult population is at alarmingly low levels - the education system just isn't set up properly to leave kids with a good grounding in maths.

SenecaFallsRedux · 03/03/2023 20:19

It seems to me that most people are describing the English system when they refer to "the U.K. system." Education is devolved in the U.K. and the Scottish system shares similarities with England, but is also different in many ways.

TheFormidableMrsC · 03/03/2023 20:57

I have been in awe of the state education my children have had and how fantastic it has been. I say this as a child who was privately educated and knew nothing else until I had children and couldn't afford the same. Their education has surpassed mine by miles. They have been so very lucky. I now work in a state school in a deprived area and it's been humbling and eye opening. I realise my experiences are not the same for everybody and indeed I had to switch my DD's school mid secondary but otherwise the care, the passion and the family orientated settings that are so at odds with my own experiences make me appreciate how lucky we are.

borntobequiet · 03/03/2023 21:51

My children had a far better education in the state system than I had at a private school, and now my grandchildren are also being educated very well in state schools (one now in secondary).

Yes there are real problems in schools but the fact remains that many young people are well served by them and taught and supported by dedicated professionals in them.

Labraradabrador · 03/03/2023 22:00

American here, and I hate the English system. Far too focused on metrics from an early age rather than holistic learning (vs. what I grew up with). Everything revolves around exams, which I think trickles down to junior school in terms of mindset, and creates a narrow, stressful educational experience in secondary. I also think starting formal schooling at 4 is detrimental to some children and provides no lasting benefit to the rest. Another year of nursery would probably suit most. I suppose it is all relative to what you are accustomed to, but I would love to find a way to move back to the US for secondary ( if not earlier).

Nboo · 03/03/2023 22:57

I agree with you OP.
I did not grow up in UK and found UK primary education nice, rounded and relaxed. DS went to a well regarded state primary and most parents there moaned about lack of communication, too much homework etc (mainly because they didn't bother reading school communication and their idea of homework was just a bit of colouring if their little darlings wanted to do it!). Many parents expressed watching TV show was more important than school work. But they would also moan when they had been told by school to do more reading at home became they felt they had been a bad parent (if you choose tv and video game over school work and your child falls behind, who is it to blame?)
Hence we moved DS to a more academic prep and DS couldn't be happier. He was finally with kids who are the same as him and enjoyed learning.

Original poster
Rhombus79 · 03/03/2023 23:42

Labraradabrador · 03/03/2023 22:00

American here, and I hate the English system. Far too focused on metrics from an early age rather than holistic learning (vs. what I grew up with). Everything revolves around exams, which I think trickles down to junior school in terms of mindset, and creates a narrow, stressful educational experience in secondary. I also think starting formal schooling at 4 is detrimental to some children and provides no lasting benefit to the rest. Another year of nursery would probably suit most. I suppose it is all relative to what you are accustomed to, but I would love to find a way to move back to the US for secondary ( if not earlier).

The starting age of 4 was a big worry for me as well. But I feel that they are learning at quite a leisurely pace compared to my own experience. I started school at 6 and Reception and Year 1 were basically squeezed into one year. Long days, lots of homework, lots of tests. I was a good student but very anxious. So I agree with you, a more holistic approach would have helped a lot.

OP posts:
ApricotLime · 03/03/2023 23:55

Rhombus79 · 03/03/2023 18:22

So from what I can gather, primary education is great but our luck might run out once DS starts secondary school?

How good an indicator is a good Ofsted report, would you think?

Not necessarily. I bet if you started a thread about whether people were happy with their child's secondary, you'd get many people saying they are. My dc have been very happy and safe and have progressed well at their comp. It's in a fully comp county. Eldest got into a top 10 Uni. It isn't a pressure cooker environment at all. It's always been rated Good for many years, including recently.

Mammyloveswine · 04/03/2023 00:12

Rhombus79 · 03/03/2023 14:56

I am curious to know how others who grew up in another country are finding the British education system.

Ds is in Year 1 at the moment and I am quite surprised how much moaning there is on the parents' WhatsApp group about the teachers, about the curriculum, about the amount of homework, etc. I find it hard to relate to be honest.

To be fair, I can only compare it to my own school experiences growing up in East Germany, where school was quite strict and expectations high. I spent many a Sunday evening crying because I was worried not to be able to keep up.

But I feel ds is getting a very rounded education with lots of rewards to keep him motivated. The teachers and teaching assistants are lovely and very approachable and ds likes them a lot. The school is even offering little workshops for the parents to learn about how they teach phonics or timetables. So far, I have a very happy 6 year old who loves going to school and who made huge strides since starting reception. That might just be our experience and others have some serious gripes with the system as it is. I just feel that a lot of parents at my ds school are undervaluing all the hard work that goes into educating their children and nothing is ever good enough.

What do you think?

What a lovely post! As I teacher I would love feedback like this!

MarshaBradyo · 04/03/2023 06:21

I like age 4 start but my dc have all been up for learning more at that age and seem to thrive on anything a bit more structured. Would not want to lose that, although youngest is nearly through reception anyway.

Secondary can be good but depends more on area. It’s more the cohort that can make it tricky or good than the learning. Looking at Ds’ further maths at A level it looks harder than anything I recall. He was lucky on the friends / cohort and teachers end too due to location.

Possiblynotever · 04/03/2023 08:00

JassyRadlett · 03/03/2023 17:11

I'm Australian and I think primary education is pretty similar but I'm dreading secondary. They specialise so ludicrously early, have make or break exams too soon, and going to only three subjects after 16 seems nuts - especially alongside not requiring kids to do some form of maths (including vocational maths) and English until 18.

I'm still absolutely gobsmacked that the government fully funds faith schools and lets them favour churchgoers.

This!

Awumminnscotland · 04/03/2023 08:02

I second the PP re Scottish education.For information, education is controlled by the Scottish government and is a completely separate and different system. The curriculum for excellence , GIRFEC (getting it right for every child) is the system here. The different age cut-offs and deferral systems make the class ages different. Many things make it impossible to make direct comparisons.

RachelSq · 07/03/2023 10:49

I’m from the UK and also can’t stand the moaning of parents in WhatsApp, so not background specific.

There’s things I’d change, if I could, but these take time and money which schools don’t have.

I’m certain the primary my DS is at is genuinely doing the best with what they have available.

I hate the gossiping about teachers most, in most cases what they’ve said/done is (probably!) fair and parents are overreacting. With other cases (for example in a recent parents evening there does seem to have been a comment that should not have been made by the teacher), I think it should first be dealt with privately rather than publicly. The teacher is just a person and unless it was meant with intent it’s probably something they’re kicking themselves about having let slip out.

Prettybutdumb · 07/03/2023 21:43

I was reminded today by a SM post of how truly awful things were for me - and still are back home. Parent meetings are with the entire group of parents, all sitting in the class at the same time, while the teacher publicly praises or shames kids one by one. Just before parent meetings the teacher will publish a list of every child’s grades in the hallway, with kids ordered from the ‘best’ to the ‘worst’. For this reason my parents would pick and choose which meetings they would attend depending on how well my siblings and I were doing in school.

Corporal punishment was widely accepted and I remember our primary teacher losing it and pulling different girls’ hair, then wiping her hands in disgust and saying ‘Yuck, I hope I didn’t get any nits on my hands’.

You have no idea how much I appreciate the British school system. It’s heaven for my girls. I’m shocked when I see parents complain for the silliest reasons.

isthisit83 · 08/03/2023 18:17

Labraradabrador · 03/03/2023 22:00

American here, and I hate the English system. Far too focused on metrics from an early age rather than holistic learning (vs. what I grew up with). Everything revolves around exams, which I think trickles down to junior school in terms of mindset, and creates a narrow, stressful educational experience in secondary. I also think starting formal schooling at 4 is detrimental to some children and provides no lasting benefit to the rest. Another year of nursery would probably suit most. I suppose it is all relative to what you are accustomed to, but I would love to find a way to move back to the US for secondary ( if not earlier).

I'm also American and agree with this. I also note OP that your son is 6.... Not sure when his birthday is but my DS is in Year 1 and he's only 5. Not 6 until June and I definitely think it's to his detriment. I could count on one hand how many times he'd picked up a pencil before he started reception (WAS NOT INTERESTED) and they were sending him home with homework to write out actual letters. I think he was ready socially but not academically at all and he's in all the lowest sets at school now. He's got to take some national phonics "test" in June and I'll be surprised if he passes it. I'm one of the parents that moans in the WhatsApp groups. I think the teachers are great and I like the school but I think it's A LOT for such a young age. The homework is VERY stressful if you have a child who doesn't want to do it/isn't interested. My child is tired after a whole day of learning. I think homework should be scrapped at such a young age apart from reading at home. It's all very formal.

Moonicorn · 08/03/2023 18:21

Possiblynotever · 03/03/2023 16:21

Frankly, I agree with you! I was not raised in this country ( we moved when my DD was in year 6), and I am very happy with the teaching here. I think that teachers are mostly very committed and that the teaching methods are really good.
I am not so keen on the fact that you can drop all scientific subjects in sixth form, but I think that the pastoral care is really excellent.
I only think that there is a major struggle to find math teachers, as most math graduates find well paid jobs in tech.
DD's schools have all been academies.

It’s lovely to read these comments actually. I think the U.K. is a very caring country with a lot on offer, but the public are frankly ungrateful 🤷🏼‍♀️ The more they get the more they expect rather than appreciating what has been given.

Labraradabrador · 08/03/2023 21:36

@isthisit83 it is so tough, isn’t it! I have two May born (but very premature) in Y1 as well, and it just feels like we are trying to do everything 6-12 months before they are ready. I deeply regret not delaying their start by a year. All the uk moms I talk to seem to think it is a great thing because one more year of schooling, but I don’t think it works that way - you can’t rush/force brain development.

we’ve moved to an independent that takes a looser approach ( probably mid way between uk and us norms), and doesn’t do SATS. It is better than the state primary we were at before in terms of providing more of a holistic education, but still feels to much for the age. I am really dreading secondary and having to navigate GCSEs and A levels - their entire lives revolving around a couple of exams. Just seems so stressful and depressing, especially in contrast to my high school experience.

UWhatNow · 08/03/2023 21:52

Primary schools are great by and large. They nurture and really care about their pupils. It’s at secondary where it all starts to unravel!

BendingSpoons · 08/03/2023 22:10

isthisit83 · 08/03/2023 18:17

I'm also American and agree with this. I also note OP that your son is 6.... Not sure when his birthday is but my DS is in Year 1 and he's only 5. Not 6 until June and I definitely think it's to his detriment. I could count on one hand how many times he'd picked up a pencil before he started reception (WAS NOT INTERESTED) and they were sending him home with homework to write out actual letters. I think he was ready socially but not academically at all and he's in all the lowest sets at school now. He's got to take some national phonics "test" in June and I'll be surprised if he passes it. I'm one of the parents that moans in the WhatsApp groups. I think the teachers are great and I like the school but I think it's A LOT for such a young age. The homework is VERY stressful if you have a child who doesn't want to do it/isn't interested. My child is tired after a whole day of learning. I think homework should be scrapped at such a young age apart from reading at home. It's all very formal.

Show quote history

Some of this is school dependent. They all have to do the phonics test of course, but my DD is in year 2 and has never had a written piece of homework. It is reading from Reception and then some spellings to learn from mid year 1. They don't do much homework in the juniors either. Of course some parents complain about this and want written homework!

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