Why do schools assume we can afford to pay for school trips at short notice

[Commonsensitivity]

I have a decent job, but am still sorting out situation with ex other parent and so money is carefully budgeted.

I heard last Monday about a school trip with payment required before the next Monday.

It was not a massive amount but more than I could afford at the time. It was actually to visit somewhere free but for the cost of a coach etc.

There are many more trips coming up and I'm wondering with the cost of living crisis how the school just accepts that we can afford to pay. What would happen if I said I couldn't.

We live in a wealthy and middle class area so I am assuming not many families have this issue, though with the cost of living crisis it must be an increasing concern.

Last term we had a letter for an overseas trip. Very expensive - £1k!!!! With the deposit due within jist under 3 weeks - no pay day in between for a lot of people. I get paid on the 25th so we could pay it and although a lot of money we we decided that DS could go.
however we are aware that a lot of people are not as fortunate so DH sent an email to the school expressing his thoughts on the lack of notice and the expense of the trip. He states as a scout leader any trip that cost a lot was given a years notice and smaller instalments plus scouts h policy on anyone needed extra financial assistant was clearly stated.
I think a couple of other people also spoke to the school, the school then instigated a parent survey and have now come up with a better school trip process. This now includes sending out an indicative list of school trips at the start of the year amongst other things.

I feel that people who truly can’t afford the trips etc won’t actually say anything - either for fear of drawing attention, or embarrassment etc so it’s up to the rest of us to call out policy’s that we don’t think are fair to everyone.

I started reading this one with a sense of dread, but it's absolutely spot on.

There are ways to improve trip payments. Some schools outline the whole year in September. I think that's a brilliant approach.

And you're 100% correct - those parents with the money need to speak up because it's easier for them than it is for those struggling.

I'm a school administrator and organise trips etc. I'm also a parent and completely understand the struggle sometimes to pay these things. This is why I ALWAYS give more than a months notice and try to time it so that a pay day falls within the notice. If it's a larger amount, I put it up even earlier and allow parents to pay in instalments. We still get a lot of parents who don't pay and it can be quite frustrating as then the trips often get cancelled. I also try my hardest to find alternative options (transport for example) to keep the cost as low as possible.

I'm so grateful our infant school recognise this and always give at least a months notice and much more for bigger trips. They've also changed some local trips that would have previously used coaches and now use the school minibus to make multiple trips so that parents don't have to pay for the coach.

We are a fairly high earning family but we've been hit with a number of unexpected bills plus the usual Christmas extra expenses and January has been so tight. For the first time in many years I would also have struggled to find £30 for a school trip with a weeks notice. Times are tough for many people even those you may not expect to be struggling.

Our Year group are arranging year 6 end of year stuff. The bill is already £90 for limousines and other bits. When I brought up the cost I was basically told I had plenty of time to save by particular mums. It wasn’t just about that, there’s the new uniform and the school have arranged a bunch of stuff. Add it all up and it’s nearly £500. Some parents are oblivious and seem to think money grows on trees.

Come on Op, stop avoiding the question. How much were you asked to pay?

Come on Op, stop avoiding the question. How much were you asked to pay?

I don't need to say because its all relative but basically it was more than half of what I had left for the month which was to be spent on food and groceries.

Schools assume nothing. Staff in schools come up with ideas. Certainly in primary schools, there is no central brain deciding on every trip that will take place over the next year or two, directing when every trip should be through the year, looking at the statistics on typical year group combinations for siblings so as to space out payments for parents of multiple children, telling the PTA when they can add their fundraising activities into the mix, or doing any of the other things that would be required to stop parents complaining (and if there were, that would be another salary the school budget couldn’t actually afford to cover). Staff in schools are human beings, like the parents, and are thus flawed, even when trying their hardest and doing their best with the time and resources available to them. Many staff in schools have children of their own and also have to pay for trips at short notice; they tend to be less inclined to dehumanise the staff in their children’s schools, though, if they also work in a school, and are therefore less likely to whinge about “schools” making assumptions, as though schools are hive minds, rather than places with human beings working in them who are sometimes less efficient or organised or perfect than they would like to be. It would help when complaining about “schools” that the flawed human beings doing the complaining remember that they are complaining about other flawed human beings, not objects.

@Walkaround you sound a little bit angry. Nobody is being dehumanised FFS! Surely it does not take a hive mind or complicated statistical analysis to realise that asking parents for a payout in the last week of January without much warning is a big ask for some parents. That's just common sense?

Your £15 or whatever amount you're being requested to stump up (if you're able to) pales into insignificance compared to the number of extra hours that the school staff will have spent organising and running the trip (which is, incidentally, not part of their job description or salary - it's carried out as an extra, for the sake of the pupils). They will often have had to arrange childcare for their own children in order to look after yours beyond the end of the school day. A simple thank you would suffice (occasionally we even get a card / flowers / plant) but it's not expected and rarely received sadly. Threads like these make me realise why we do this for the children and not the parents. It really is a vocation.

Threads like these make me realise why we do this for the children and not the parents. It really is a vocation.

Ite not really for the children if you are just taking food and resources off the family table at short notice! Maslows hierarchy of needs springs to mind!

well, there willl always have been a calendar, you just hadn't asked to see it before. Teachers cant just have an "idea" part way into the term!

I think this is the problem

You feel awkward

I know you have already responded negatively to people who have suggested that isn't necessary, however, this is what the problem is, and you are the only person who can do anything about it

As others have said, the payment is voluntary. Yes, if not enough people pay then the trip doesn't go ahead, but that is just a fact of life, and not a source of blame or shame

I would urge you to consider what attitude you are passing on to your children if you think that there is something shameful or awkward in lack of money

I work in a school. If people are straightforward with us about what they cant afford, then we all know where we stand

If people feel like these straightforward , everyday, normal conversations are "awkward", or embarrassing or shameful, and are reluctant to just give us the basic information we need to operate, then planning is impossible and nothing is certain and the time and energy wasted becomes very frustrating, and there is resentment all round

Entitled! That’s the word.

If course this trip won’t be the only thing they ask for money for. It’s likely those claiming benefit will have the trip covered for them? That’s how it works in this L.A anyway.

I can't believe how rude some people are being.

Obviously school's should be inclusive and make decisions with lower income families in mind.

Not everyone can find £10 under the sofa cushions.

They should give everyone more notice and they should have a discreet fund that parents who are struggling can access for things like this so their children don't miss out.

OP, I know it's hard but I do think if you emailed the teacher and asked if it would be ok to pay next month, it wouldn't be a big deal on the schools end. I would be surprised if they gossiped about it, they must see it all the time.

@MaverickGooseGoose £ 290 at the start of Year 7 on top of new uniforms, shoes, and school supplies is ridiculous for a state school.

@itsjustnotok Limos at 11 may be expected, but it’s not reasonable or appropriate. These mums are raising very entitled children. Very few parents can afford celebrations on that scale.

@Ihatethenewlook £4300 could buy a quite decent used car. For far less, your son’s school could go to London; see Galapagos turtles, penguins, and New World monkeys at the Zoo; visit Kew for tropical and montane plants; the Natural History museum for evolution and sustainability education; the British Museum for South American artifacts and on general principal; and dine on authentic food at El Inca Plebeyo, Rinconcosteno, or other Ecuadorian eatery. Other cultural resources could be sourced as well. Instead of mountain climbing, they could try a rock wall and zip lining instead. No expensive flights, vaccinations, or extreme risk management would be involved. The carbon footprint would be much smaller as well.

Where does the money come from for those who can’t or won’t pay? Does it come out of the school budget? Or does the cost of the trip for each individual include excess to cover others?

I do remember back when I was on the pta in primary school that the treasurer used to say that it was surprising which families would refuse to pay their contribution to school trips organised by the pta, and it wasn’t the families that were known to be struggling- they would usually scrape the money together somehow.

primary school tends to be small amounts.

but wait for secondary...my 3 each have a week class trip before summer plus a couple of overnighters. for the short trips we get the invoice about a week before.
plus all the different shoes they need...

tbh you need to start to budget for things like this. it will get more and if it's possible for you to pay it will be good for dc not to be left out.

Our infant school have recognised this. We have a trip end March and were given details in October. You could pay in installments. It was about £30. They also only do 1 or 2 trips a year.

@Commonsensitivity - you think I sound angry? I’m not angry, just disappointed that you are clearly entirely incapable of seeing the motes in your own eye, yet see the faults of others as failings of their common sense.

And in all honesty, if all or even most parents had a problem with the payments, then the trip would not happen. So, either it will be cancelled, or enough parents can afford it - or the entire class/year group/school is full of parents in debt who are incapable of exercising their own “common sense.” Organising a trip at the last minute, or not asking for payment until late is nothing whatsoever to do with the possession or absence of common sense, btw.

It comes out of the school budget.

And in all honesty, if all or even most parents had a problem with the payments, then the trip would not happen. So, either it will be cancelled, or enough parents can afford it - or the entire class/year group/school is full of parents in debt who are incapable of exercising their own “common sense.” Organising a trip at the last minute, or not asking for payment until late is nothing whatsoever to do with the possession or absence of common sense, btw.

You work in a school, yet that entire paragraph makes little sense!