Why do schools assume we can afford to pay for school trips at short notice

[Commonsensitivity]

I have a decent job, but am still sorting out situation with ex other parent and so money is carefully budgeted.

I heard last Monday about a school trip with payment required before the next Monday.

It was not a massive amount but more than I could afford at the time. It was actually to visit somewhere free but for the cost of a coach etc.

There are many more trips coming up and I'm wondering with the cost of living crisis how the school just accepts that we can afford to pay. What would happen if I said I couldn't.

We live in a wealthy and middle class area so I am assuming not many families have this issue, though with the cost of living crisis it must be an increasing concern.

I am a foster carer to a Y1 child, and all this is new to me.

I was asked in October for £22 for 3 trips this academic year. I think the cost was subsidised by PTA of around £15 per child.

We are entitled to PP due to a LA child, but were happy to pay our full contribution.

I've been a foster carer to a child who was just never allowed to go on a school trip as her parents never filled in the permission slip or paid their contribution. It is so sad. She had never been to the seaside, or into Central London (we live within the M25), nor to Windsor Castle, nor Hampton Court, nor theatre trips. We spent a lot of time in the first few months making up for lost opportunities.

Sorry have I missed where the OP actually confirmed the amount? As a pp said, if it’s £3 then it’s clearly going to be more affordable for a lot of people than if it’s £30.

Unreasonably short notice in my opinion given that many people may have large energy bills this month to pay.

If you've been overspending at Christmas that is your look out, but energy bill increases are beyond any individual's control to a large extent.

It's drives me mad be it £3 or £30 some people are struggling. It's also the £1 here or £2 here that you have to find cash for. We love giving DS trips and are more than happy to pay, nursery used to have a school fund that all parents paid in X amount a month or year that covered trips etc wish primary schools would do the same.

It is often difficult to admit you need a food bank, but it is different. If I was referred to a food bank it would be by people I didn’t really see on a regular basis. HV, GP, aren’t people I see on a daily basis.

Schools are obviously different, and while I’m sure some are discreet it would be misleading and wrong to say all are, especially in primary schools when you have support staff and teachers too sometimes immersed in the local community. I work in a school myself and so I am not being critical but it does happen, not generally intended maliciously but someone says ooh, Oliver Jones’ mum asked if she could have some money for the school trip, poor thing, and everyone knows you’re struggling!

Many children are raised in poverty and you’d never know it because their parents are the ones in poverty. In about 90% of the cases I know parents would miss meals and walk miles so their children could go on that trip.

Second child's school has been a breath of fresh air. They offer a uniform swap as well as a second hand shop. If you have uniform items you don't need any more you can swap them for a larger size for free or buy second hand at a cheap price.
When it comes to trips they are on parent pay and you can always pay in instalments, there's a residential in the summer and we've been paying it bit by bit for 6 months now.

Makes a massive change and is different from every other school I've seen.

It's a sad state that many
are educated and working parents find that times are so tough that these requests are difficult. I understand that you don't want to go into the school to ask for a stage payment plan. It pride. xx

I had the argument with my kids school over something similar. I had to point out that by doing collections all the time for different charities and sponsored this and that, they were putting a lot of pressure on parents. The one that annoyed me was a food bank collection where the kids handed over their donations when they entered school and were given a ticket for each item. It made it obvious who had donated and who hadn’t. There is families in the school who have had to use food banks. The school didn’t care they just wanted their photo in the local paper looking good.

Coach costs have gone up soooooo much in the last couple of years. School budgets have gone down. Clearly parents will need to pay something to cover the increased costs.

Children get a lot out of group trips even if you as an adult don't see a benefit to the actual place that they have gone to. The littlest ones learn how to deal with the change to their usual school routine, to meet new adults, to learn to listen to instructions, how to walk safely in a group, use a different mode of travel that they may not have much experience of eg climb up and down coach steps and get themselves in the seat. It sounds simple to us but it's often new for the children. Some children barely go anywhere apart from home and school as parents don't bother to/can't take them anywhere, so it's all stimulation for them.

For teens, school trips allow them to develop soft skills like independence and advance their social skills. They often get to see a different side to their teachers too.

This is a really stupid comment for two reasons. First of all, it makes it seem like you are unaware that people's situations can and do change through no fault of their own, so you come over as not that bright. Furthermore it is so mean that it's laughable, so end up looking like a bit of a prat.

That's so lovely.

Just speak to them.
I promise you won’t be the only one.

Unfortunately the kids will miss out on many trips if people demand that there is longer notice.

So although I understand your point, they will have sent the request for payment as early as they could.

This should not happen. I find it hard to believe it did. I work in a school. It takes ages to collect money for any trip. The booking of coaches needs to be done well in advance. A polite note or email saying that you can't contribute at short notice on this occasion is all that is required. Trips have more or less become things of the past for us. Too many simply can't afford it.

There should be trips. They are a great educational opportunity and thank God teachers still run them. If anyone struggles to pay there’s always a friendly ear in most schools. A brilliant school will tell you well in advance what’s planned. A year sometimes! Shame that poor leadership fails to help parents plan. PP money could be used for qualifying Dc. Also school fund money if agreed. Trips are definitely use it or lose it though.

Schools are obviously different, and while I’m sure some are discreet it would be misleading and wrong to say all are, especially in primary schools when you have support staff and teachers too sometimes immersed in the local community. I work in a school myself and so I am not being critical but it does happen, not generally intended maliciously but someone says ooh, Oliver Jones’ mum asked if she could have some money for the school trip, poor thing, and everyone knows you’re struggling!

Your school REALLY needs to change its practices then. At the primary school I work in there would be only a couple of people who would need to know about such requests. The office staff (for whom discretion is a huge requirement for the role), as they will be organising the bookings/payments for the trip usually,and someone on the senior management team, usually the head teacher, to approve any financial help. Class teachers don't need to know, neither do TAs. No-one else needs to know.

I understand but I think when you have children you need to steel yourself and get over the pride issue for the sake of your child. You can't disadvantage your child because you're too proud to ask for help, when there IS help available.

Honestly, schools have dealt with some really horrendous family situations and SLT will have been involved in multiple safeguarding cases/liaised with social services many times over. They see families in dire straits. Really dire straits. They aren't going to bat an eyelid over someone phoning school and asking if it's possible to pay in instalments/pay past the deadline etc/requeest that more notice is given for trip payments in future.

I’m not talking about my school, @CurlyhairedAssassin . I’m talking about schools, plural. Anyone who thinks they are the absolute height of discretion who would never dream of a bit of careless gossip (albeit not generally meant unkindly, ime) is wrong.

And it isn’t about whether they’d bat an eyeball or not, it’s just about wanting to keep private business private, which is reasonable.

Our school planned two tips in December, a few parents acknowledged the crap timing as well as prompt payment requested and discussed with the school who then sent out a wider email to parents advising they can pay in instalments via schools parent portal throughout the year if they so wished/needed to. I thought this was great, people didn’t have to do the awkward 1:1 and could take advantage of it when needed.

That's great, but it happened as a result of parental feedback to the school. Schools rely on it to do a good job. Wanting to "be private" as someone just suggested, is all well and good but if everyone was so passive and didn't communicate with school about important things like affordability of trips then there is not opportunity for the school to be aware and change their practices.

Sometimes schools have done things a certain way for a long time, simply out of habit and to save time. It often takes a parent to point something out that they hadn't considered before, so parents should always approach school if they think things could be done differently. "Parent voice" is a big thing for Ofsted, and communciation with school is so important. If you don't feel your child's school staff are approachable or discreet then raise it as an issue!

It is often difficult to admit you need a food bank, but it is different. If I was referred to a food bank it would be by people I didn’t really see on a regular basis. HV, GP, aren’t people I see on a daily basis.

Schools are obviously different, and while I’m sure some are discreet it would be misleading and wrong to say all are, especially in primary schools when you have support staff and teachers too sometimes immersed in the local community. I work in a school myself and so I am not being critical but it does happen, not generally intended maliciously but someone says ooh, Oliver Jones’ mum asked if she could have some money for the school trip, poor thing, and everyone knows you’re struggling!

Many children are raised in poverty and you’d never know it because their parents are the ones in poverty. In about 90% of the cases I know parents would miss meals and walk miles so their children could go on that trip.

Spot on. School Admin staff are also parents in some cases. And people do talk. It's human nature!

Our school has done similar. It's in quite a mixed area, some high earning parents but a lot on benefits/low wages.
We were given 3 days notice of a £10 payment for a school trip & some simply couldn't spare it at that short notice.

I appreciate that they've tried to keep the costs as low as possible so they're affordable for many, but I think a couple of weeks notice should be given at least.

School Admin staff are also parents in some cases. And people do talk. It's human nature!

It really isn't, OP. It comes up in job interviews about the need for absolute discretion in schools, particularly small community schools. They're employing the wrong people if they giving the job to people who know everyone and who are just going to gossip. Or need to give some training or have a stern word with those people.

There is very little joy in organising and running a school trip. From dealing with travel companies and every other essential part of administration requirements, to returning to school, every single second you're on edge and checking everyone is ok. They might look fun in the photos (an essential part of our job for the school's social media) and hopefully they are for the pupils, but the staff will inevitably be absolutely worn out. It's not the same as taking your own children out or on holiday when you can relax a bit and enjoy it too. It's very much work - and much harder than being in school, as far more risks and opportunities for something to go wrong.
The staff do it for the children. For their enrichment and their personal development. To give them more opportunities to mix with their peers in a different social environment. School trips are tremendously beneficial for pupils and these are the things they'll remember when they're older.
Staff have zero time to organise trips. They're often last minute as something crops up that fits with the curriculum and it would be a great opportunity to go. Again, this is done to benefit pupils and not because staff fancy a jolly. Most schools are very mindful and do all they can to keep costs down, to ensure that trips are as inclusive as possible. They will not be making a profit and will most likely be subsidising it themselves. Staff will frequently buy snacks and drinks for pupils out of their own pockets for during the day / journey.
All of the above is simply to make you aware, as if parents continue to complain then it's far easier and less hassle for staff in schools not to do trips. Your children / our pupils are the only ones who'll miss out.
If the cost remains a problem and it can't be paid in instalments, begged or borrowed, then speak to school. They'll help. But please, just stop with the constant complaining.

It really shouldn't happen. If it did, school is at real fault. How many children's parents will be able able to pay up on time, not just because of the lack of money, but also because of short notice. And if there are not enough money, they will cancel the trip.
It sounds unlikely in the normal school. So your school is not right at all.

All of the above is simply to make you aware, as if parents continue to complain then it's far easier and less hassle for staff in schools not to do trips. Your children / our pupils are the only ones who'll miss out.
If the cost remains a problem and it can't be paid in instalments, begged or borrowed, then speak to school. They'll help. But please, just stop with the constant complaining.

Not actually complaining. School trips are great. I just think asking for payment with 6 days notice at the end of January is something I literally cannot afford (as its the amount I have left for buying food until the end of the month). I could pay but then I'd have nothing left to buy food.