Deprived area primary school

[FreshCop]

If you had a choice would you put your child in a good/outstanding school in a deprived area?

Teachers will be excellent and do their best. However parent attitudes aren’t the best and probably a lot of chaotic home lives.

Or would you rather travel further to get your child in a school in a better area with more supportive parents interested in their child’s education?

Also if you’re a teacher it would be great to hear your perspective too.

I’d move.

FreshCop I can completely understand your hesitation. I think schools like the one you describe often do really well for children with additional problems or behavioural difficulties arising from a complicated home life but well behaved quiet children (from whatever background) can sometimes get overlooked, and learning time is reduced because teachers are dealing with disruption. When my DCs went to their primary school, the new head was very keen to encourage a greater mix of children so were looking at both ends, ie supporting children with difficulties and stretching brighter children. This was some time ago and I suspect schools do not always have the support staff to do this now. A lot will obviously depend on the support that's available within the school and how confident your child is. Good luck with a difficult decision.

I technically live in a deprived area but it's nothing like you've described. I'd think twice about that school and mine attends an outstanding one in a deprived area. It's a nice deprived area though if that makes sense, people mostly have aspirations but not easy to improve

High levels of English as a second language is extremely common in London and has no bearing on the quality of learning. In fact, those children, statistically, do much better than native English speakers.

OP, if I were you I would chose the school where the parents are most like you with similar attitudes to learning. I had a very similar choice to you and chose the middle class school and I’m very glad I did. I have made a lot of friends amongst the other parents and I don’t think that would have been the case at the other school.

I was going to say that I wouldn't have an issue but your further updates have made me change my mind. My kids go to school which has a catchment area of affluent and then deprived but I don't relate to some of the scenes you mention! Some of the benefits that I have noticed, I hear a lot about schools having lack of money but our school benefits from high levels of FSM and other things so receives a decent amount of funding, and this can be seen being re-invested into the school (currently work is going on to install heat pumps and solar panels). But I think the negatives in your case outweigh any benefits like this.

Sorry, just catching up with your posts FreshCop I think English as an Additional Language (EAL) children often catch up very quickly and (generalising wildly) if they are from supportive academic backgrounds I would not have thought this would necessarily be a problem.

Don’t do it.

We did it - an outstanding school in a deprived area. Great ethos and staff.

It was fine for a few years. But over time it became more of a challenge. Most time in school is now spent on behaviour management and it is not followed up at home. Years 5 and 6 have been a real eye opener (knives and other weapons brought in etc). Learning standards have dropped and my well behaved, bright child is now struggling with anxiety around school - in part due to constant disruption in the classroom. The school also suffers with a lack of parental support for other activities - a group of us set up a PTA but it folded after 3 years due to a lack of support, and I have constantly been the only parent volunteer on trips. Some of the children’s primary school friends are banned from my house because of their behaviour when visiting.

My children will be/are now attending secondary school a slight distance away with a very different intake. I had always assumed that I would send them to the secondary attached to their primary - but I’ve called the police too many times after witnessing incidents outside the school and a year 11 pupil being murdered by a classmate was the final straw.

My DS started in a school in a deprived area and I saw no issues... until we moved and he got a place at the school in a very middle class area. Teaching etc was much the same but where the previous school had raised a few 100 (maybe 1000) at their summer fair this one raised over £10000. This pays for a lot of extras.

Sorry again, still catching up with the updated posts.

Given the circumstances you describe I think I would also be looking towards the school further afield.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's a rude assumption. Of course many parents from deprived areas are excellent, loving parents who care deeply about education. However, there will be a higher number of kids from more chaotic backgrounds. Many children I know have just moved up to a secondary school in a deprived area. There are big problems with disruptive behaviour, fighting in class, violence towards teachers etc. There is less antisocial behaviour at a neighbouring school in a more wealthy area. Like I say I'm well aware that many deprived parents are brilliant. I grew up in poverty and had the best parents. I also know plenty of wealthier parents are abusive. However, there is a noticeable difference in schools in more deprived areas.

We moved home to get our DS in a “well off” area instead of an “outstanding” school in a deprived area and here’s a quick summary of why/how it’s turned out.

Our catchment school before we moved was “outstanding” but in a VERY deprived area. The improvement score of the school was almost off the charts high, but this was due to a very low starting point (a high proportion of the reception intake started not knowing colours/counting etc according to the Ofsted report). The attainment results at the end of the school were still below average nationally. We visited and the school seemed great in terms of supporting the kids who were all well behaved etc., but I worried that my DS who had started learning to read at 3 would be lost there given the number of kids who needed basic support.

The school we moved to get into is “Good”, has a very average improvement score but has very good attainment at the end of KS2. I visited the school and loved it. I thought this would suit my son lots better, as he’d be joining a reception class with children at a similar level and academic results are important to us and it would be easier to achieve at a high level if there’s multiple higher achievers in the class.

We have absolutely no doubt that this was the best move for us as a family, now that my DS is in yr 1. He is thriving and among the top few academically (in a relatively high attainment class - 100% met the ELG in reception).

The potential downsides that I can see would be the differential in funding. The more deprived school had much better facilities no doubt due to more funding. This may become more of an issue in the next few years as finances become even more tight. I can see my DS’s school becoming very tight as they don’t get a huge amount of funding.

My friend’s child goes to a school like this as they never got into first choice. It’s worked out really well. The school is brilliant, excellent pastoral support, really great ethos. A lot better than the ‘nice area’ school from reports from parents of children there with similar needs to her own.

Area was more important to us than the Offsted rating. I just need to be as strategic as possible here.

I think this is the truth people don’t want to admit.

Ok, read your updates. I would not send my children to that particular deprived area school. No way.

Never judge a book by its cover OP

All of my children went to primary schools in a deprived area and they were happy there and done well.
In fact one of the schools had a Deputy Head begin many years ago now (He is now Headteacher) who had previously taught and resided in a Private School in France. Lovely Man he is as well.

Absolutely this ^^

No judgement from me either, mn love to jump on the defence bandwagon! When in truth they’d be asking the same questions in your position.

when I got divorced and my ds was only 18months old I actively moved to an area with good schools knowing it would push me financially but would serve him in the long run. I had no money but found a way because the alternative though good schools, meant the social aspect for my son would be very impacted by the alternative area and demographic.

wanting the beet education for your child isn’t snobby or judgemental it’s parenting.

I would go for the good school further away if I were you.

High levels of English as a second language is extremely common in London and has no bearing on the quality of learning. In fact, those children, statistically, do much better than native English speakers.
**
**
OP, if I were you I would chose the school where the parents are most like you with similar attitudes to learning. I had a very similar choice to you and chose the middle class school and I’m very glad I did. I have made a lot of friends amongst the other parents and I don’t think that would have been the case at the other school.

@TumbleFryer i was born overseas too and spoke both English and another language since I can remember. The other school has a majority of children who’s parents are international students at the universities, generally affluent enough to pursue an education abroad so obviously will value education.

just I had heard it may hold some classes back if teachers are spending time focused on getting children to learn the basics in English.

I feel that I would feel happier with my child socialising with those children than those of deprived and generationally unemployed locals.

People are choosing to be offended here but what you say carries a lot of truth. We have every intention of moving out of the shithole area of London we are in when DD starts primary school. The schools themselves (as per Ofsted reports) struggle with poor behaviour. Teachers can only do so much if they cannot get the parents on board with discipline and homework.

I realise we will face a whole new set of challenges by moving to a more affluent area.

We sent our children to a 'good' primary in a very deprived area. My husband did the school visiting and was wowed by the facilities. They had 93% free school meals and therefore loads of additional funding. When I took my son on the first day and saw the other parents, I knew it was a mistake. Lots of swearing, shouting, obvious drug use, fights etc. The children were lovely kids on the whole, but with lots of trauma and many struggled to stay calm and regulated. The classroom often had to be evacuated due to violent outbursts. My eldest is quiet and academic and really struggled.

We persevered for a few years, my youngest started there, but one day my son told me he hated his school and wanted to die. I moved them another primary within weeks of this. The head told me she didn't blame me, she would do the same! The new primary was very working class, but not with the same levels of social exclusion. Hard working parents with 'normal' family lives. My eldest flourished, my youngest suddenly learned to read at last. They were able to relax and feel safe in the classroom. I wish I'd sent them there from the beginning.

I think it is a valid question. My friend's DS goes to a truly outstanding school - in many ways I am in awe of it because they are ambitious and always doing amazing stuff, whereas my DS's school is just solid, rightly rated "Good" by Ofsted, and bumps along fine.

However the children at the outstanding school (180 of them in each year) come from a more financially and socially deprived area, more deprived families, often with lots of children, and as they get older problematic attitudes and behaviours and language are becoming common. My friend is considering moving her DS(7), realistically to a more bog standard school, because she wants a calm and secure environment more than an amazing school that has a lot of challenges.

Teachers can only do so much if they cannot get the parents on board with discipline and homework.

Parental support and engagement makes a massive difference, if the parents act like school is very important, the children will know it is alsoX

Parents who are happy to take their kids out to museums on the weekend and exposing them to lots of new things. Parents who enjoy speaking to teachers and getting involved when they can.

Having that little bit of disposable income to enjoy a bit more makes a big difference in confidence and happiness of children.

home problems = behavioural problems.

Do the poor area schools get outstanding ofsted because of value added and the extremely low starting points of the children then?

I saw a teacher post on here recently that they work so much harder to close the gap and that’s the only reason they get those results.

More affluent are schools don’t have that struggle. Parents are engaged and do a lot of the work too.

They had 93% free school meals and therefore loads of additional funding.

OMG.. wonder what they all talk about at the school gates… this is definitely not what I want.

The other school has lots of professional parents working at the nearby hospitals.

A lot of them being from Asian countries which typically the children don’t really exhibit behavioural problems and are top performers in comparison to deprived locals.

I have taught in a school in a very deprived area, with many of the issues listed here. The teachers and staff, and many of the parents, worked extremely hard to improve outcomes, but some of the children were very traumatised and classrooms were often distressing places to be, which had a huge impact on everyone. It nearly broke me.