Non-verbal / mainstream

[caterpillar90]

We've had a couple of settling in sessions at the school DS will be starting reception at in September.
Yesterday we had a classroom stay and play, which also involved time outside in the playground. Adults were invited for the first part of the classroom and into the playground.
There are a few children in DS's class who are non verbal. They were very agitated by the morning and starting hitting other children, which resulted in tears and requests to go home. The focus was predominantly on the non-verbal children by the teacher and TA and them taking them in and out of the classroom.
This school was oversubscribed and the LA published the schools admissions data and no children were admitted with an EHCP, which obviously means no extra funding.
My concern is that yesterday is indicative of how the reception year is going to be with the focus on the children who are going to need more support and those children who don't will have some of their learning time taken away as a result. I realise that I may sound non-inclusive - that is not the case. I am just worried that DS may be overlooked as a result.

Non verbal? Or 3/4 year olds overwhelmed by somewhere noisy and new and hot?

Non-verbal. No words. I suspect probably autistic with a lot of hand flapping as well.

Wow, I wish I didn't read this. Heartless and horrible thread.

I have known situations where children with SEN are not picked up before school and arrive without the necessary support in place, however the school will use their budget to initially fund support and then will complete all the necessary paperwork to hopefully get more funding.

It also might be that the support will be available from September but it wasn't available for the transition visit.

It could also be that the transition visit was too overwhelming with so many new children and parents but in September it will be calmer and more structured so not so overwhelming.

My son is autistic. The EHCP application process took forever- pretty much a whole school year. We were then told he needed to have six months with the plan in place before we could consider a special school instead.

That brings us to now and we are looking at special schools as he has not shown enough progress. We have been told that we will probably be waiting at least another YEAR before gaining a place at one.

So in the meantime mainstream it is.

im more concerned about my own sons development then how he inconveniences those in the class without additional struggles tbh 🙄

I’ve also seen threads on here where people have complained about the SEN children getting extra help and staff and trips so you can’t win.

I know what you mean OP. It would be great if those children could get extra support whilst the other children still get the support they need but with poor staffing and no 1:1 help the other children can get unintentionally left out. DD's school was like this, 3 children in her class with SEND one of whom was in a wheelchair and they didn't have funding/staff to support those children so the teacher had to do all the help.
The children in your class may be waiting for funding or a plan to get staff to support them, so by September that may be in place. But there is still a chance they don't get that support. You could speak to the class teacher or your contact at the school.
As a parent of a child with SEND, inclusivity only works if every child has their needs met. You're not wrong to worry about your child in this situation

I was a teacher and being a parent puts a different spin on things. I've had classes where theee were 3 or 4 SEN children, 1 part time TA and myself. It was incredibly difficult at times to ensure you were engaging and stretching the mid and higher learners in the class when the SEN needs were greater.

I don't think this is a heartless post, it sadly reinforces hpw underfunded schools are.

We all want the best for our children, but I want that to mean ALL children are getting the same focus and drive to move their learning on. It is a sad fact that mid and higher learners do get lost in the system.

I was just surprised no process had been started (speaking to the parent) when a friend of mine has a DD with the same level of needs and already has EHCP and special school in place for September.

It seems like it would be very unusual for ‘a few’ children all to be non verbal and hitting and hand flapping by the end of the session.

It would be even more unusual for a parent to be able to accurately identify and diagnose autism in another child at a reception settling visit.

I understand your concern for your child, but are you really talking about a few children, all showing the same behaviour?

Wow non verbal and hand flappy and struggling to deal with an induction day. How dare these kids exist! And taking learning time away from Snookums as well!

Pay to go private - they screen out those inconvenient "SEN children" for you (my child is NOT a "SEN child" - she's a child who happens to have some additional needs - and also the most polite, rule following, desperate to please child you would ever meet).

I was a teacher - I'm ashamed of attitudes like the OPs that seem to be acceptable in the profession at times. If you WERE a teacher you'd know that sometimes it takes time to get funding in place for extra staffing; that changes and transitions are huge triggers for lots of children with ASD and that things will often settle down very calmly in September; that it is seriously fucking hot even for the most neurotypical of children; and that wibbles going into Reception are really bloody common. You should also really have a feeling for how utterly fucked up and drawn out and a battle of endurance that getting EHCPs in place is - and how slimy LEAs can be in trying to make them as vague and uneforceable as possible - and how the system basically means that kids often have to be proven to fail in mainstream before they will even BEGIN to argue about funding a specialist place.

I'm also autistic myself - in an overwhelming situation I start to lose my higher level language functioning and will hand flap (thank you pockets for aiding me to hide it)... it comes back as I settle into a situation or as I deploy my own tricks to cope and mask it. I could have been one of those inconvenient hand flappers... or I could be an ex teacher, now a SALT who functions perfectly OK - because society gave me the time to learn how to cope with how I see the world.

The DC may not be non-verbal, they may need time to settle in that environment before speaking at school.

Just because the admissions data published at the time school places were released doesn’t include any DC with EHCPs doesn’t mean there haven’t been EHCPs finalised since naming the school. You don’t know whether the EHCP process has been started either.

The school can apply for high needs top up funding.

Having 3-4 pupils with SEND in a class is average. 12.6% of pupils in state MS primaries are under SEN Support.

fatlazycow the LA may like you to believe you need to spend 6 months in MS with an EHCP before considering SS, but it isn’t true. Also, unless the school is wholly independent, on its own being ‘full’ (which isn’t defined in law) is not enough to refuse to name your preferred school. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DS is incompatible. The bar for that is high, higher than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. The LA can, and must, name the school regardless of the school’s objections unless they can prove one of the exceptions. If the LA do refuse to name your preference you should appeal.

Sadly, there will always be parents like the OP. the sad reality is children with SEN do not get anywhere near the level of support they need; they often don’t even get identified as having SEN until many years later. They don’t receive ‘quality first’ teaching meaning the expertise of a teacher. Parents are often told that schools cannot support them due to their high needs and good luck finding space in a specialist school!
Your child will be just fine. I wish I could say the same about the countless children with SEN who are not getting the support they need

OP I would also worry - it’s all very well other people saying that your child will be fine, and think about other children who have much greater needs. But you are your child’s mum, of course you want them to thrive and meet their potential and not just get by while most attention is focused on other children who need it more. It may all work out OK. Or it may be that this is going to be a class in which your DC won’t thrive. I’d see how it goes, but also ask around about the same year group at other local schools, to see if there are spaces if you did want to move schools at some point.

I have a non-verbal child and the opening post is horrible. I think it might even be disablist. Should I just keep my child locked away from everyone so as not to disadvantage the poor children without SEN.

It's especially awful coming from someone who was apparently a teacher.

How do you know the children are non-verbal?
It’s a settling in session - obviously they are going to need more support in that kind of situation. Things will settle more as they get into a routine.

It's not like there's an abundance of places at SEND schools, particularly for children of Reception age. It's also very, very unusual for a child of four to already have an EHCP. My daughter does but that's only because her nursery SENCO is amazing. The 'extra funding' it brings in is not as much as you think OP, it certainly wouldn't cover a full time 1:1 every day and currently educational thinking is very much moving away from the 'Velcro TA' model in any case.

Perhaps your child may actually learn some compassion, tolerance and understanding, as she won't learn it from you.

EHCP does not equal funding. I have children with an EHCP who require no additional funding and children with additional funding without an EHCP. I apply for funding above the notional £6k on a case by case basis. I am required to put provision in place, pay for it and then apply for the funding to cover it.

Currently I have no new starters with an EHCP, this is because that paperwork takes months. The nurseries have put in the paperwork, but the drafts haven’t been issued- let alone the final plans. I will receive drafts over the holiday and I will respond about our ability to meet need (during my holiday, during which I am not paid). I am expecting to welcome 3 new starters with EHCPs by September.

Those are the facts addressing the points in your post OP, very few people (even teachers) understand how SEND works in schools. You might find that they help you to Bette understand what may well be going on in the background. I’m politely ignoring the tone of your post.

currently educational thinking is very much moving away from the 'Velcro TA' model in any case.

LAs would like parents to believe this and often trot out the argument that research shows 1:1s cause dependence. But, they are misrepresenting the research. Blatchford et al., 2012 does not say 1:1s should not be used. Instead it warns of the pitfalls of inappropriately using 1:1s as ‘substitute teachers’ and poor training for TAs and teachers.

Sharples et al., 2015 (which is in the government guidance for the deployment of TAs) showed a good, appropriately trained 1:1 used correctly (i.e. not used to replace the teacher) can have a positive effect on pupil engagement and attainment.

Ultimately it is the LA who are responsible for ensuring the provision specified and quantified in section F is provided. It is possible to ensure an EHCP is fully funding by LAs, although LAs won’t unless forced to.

@LargeLegoHaul I agree. Unfortunately it seems to be increasingly used to justify no adult 1:1 support, rather than 'right person at the right time'.
Either way there is never enough funding attached to an EHCP to properly and fully fund the support needed.

Either way there is never enough funding attached to an EHCP to properly and fully fund the support needed.

There can be, with a fight, as ultimately the LA is responsible. DS3 is in MS and has a fully funded EHCP.

Some posters pn this thread are so preachy 🙄Of course the OP is worried about HER OWN CHILD. That's normal. Anf having lots of non-verbal children in a mainstream school IS disruptive and probably bad for those children as well especially as there is not enough support for them in place. There is nothing selfish or heartless about wanting the best for their own child and being worried about their education being disrupted or them being overlooked. ALL children deserve to be seen and helped by teachers and to feel safe at school without any child lashing out because they can't cope.

God this thread is disgusting and I wish I hadn't seen it. OP, you have no idea what it is like to raise a child who is non verbal and how worried those parents will be about their child. Your (presumably) able child will be just fine. Give your head a shake.

Thank goodness for people like @CoffeeWithCheese.

You don't need an EHCP to get funding - most children who work with a TA don't have an EHCP.

Right... because parents of NT kids have no right to worry about them. If they get hit by a child with SEN because that child can't cope in mainstream school, or if they get overlooked because the teacher focuses on the SEN children, it doesn't matter because NT kids will be "just fine". 🙄