Non-verbal / mainstream

[caterpillar90]

We've had a couple of settling in sessions at the school DS will be starting reception at in September.
Yesterday we had a classroom stay and play, which also involved time outside in the playground. Adults were invited for the first part of the classroom and into the playground.
There are a few children in DS's class who are non verbal. They were very agitated by the morning and starting hitting other children, which resulted in tears and requests to go home. The focus was predominantly on the non-verbal children by the teacher and TA and them taking them in and out of the classroom.
This school was oversubscribed and the LA published the schools admissions data and no children were admitted with an EHCP, which obviously means no extra funding.
My concern is that yesterday is indicative of how the reception year is going to be with the focus on the children who are going to need more support and those children who don't will have some of their learning time taken away as a result. I realise that I may sound non-inclusive - that is not the case. I am just worried that DS may be overlooked as a result.

@XelaM most children with SEN do NOT get the expertise of the class teacher. They’re lucky if they get 121.
NT children are just as likely to bully a child with SEN, usually with INTENT whereas an Sen child is likely to be having a meltdown or simply doesn’t understand their actions.

OP said in her opening post that the SEN children were not coping and started hitting other children. My priority would be to keep my child safe and not to be hit - regardless of why the other child is hitting them. Nothing disgusting about it.

My son was that nonverbal child in reception lots of years ago. Don't worry his funding came through quickly and he was part time until it did.
Your child won't be overlooked and will be safe .

@germsandcoffee do you mind me asking how your son is doing now? I fear that will be my son in a year or so time and I'm so worried about him. It keeps me awake at night.

Can't tag but he's 18 now and although he has communication problems he's an amazing young man. Loves being around people and happy to be out exploring the world with one of us.
He does also have learning difficulties so he left mainstream aged 7 and attends a school where most have severe autism. Daunting but the best thing we ever did x

The education system has lots of flaws and is massively underfunded.

You could choose to support it by volunteering your time to the reception class or another class as your help would be invaluable. Or ask to be part of the PTFA or governors and try and put your concerns for the children across to the school.
you could even write to your local MP about the lack of funding and support for education.

as regards to your daughter she has you to support her and I am sure you will do lots of fun, social and educational activities out of school and help her with all her school homework.

school is a small part of a child’s life so if you are concerned there are lots of things you could do to try and make a positive change.

Sorry son

I’m in a local SEN group. There aren’t enough special school places, many children who clearly need high levels of support are being pushed into mainstream schools even when the school clearly states they can’t meet need. It’s detrimental for the child with SEN and also others in the class.

I get your worry, everyone wants the best for their child. I have nothing against children with SEN being in a mainstream class (anecdotal story below), if they are a danger to themselves/others that is not acceptable.

My DS has a boy with significant learning delay alongside other medical needs in his class (non-verbal). This child has a TA, but the TA also assists the rest of the class, presumably due to only PT funding and/or the Velcro PA mentioned below, or possibly just by not being ignorant to the other children - I’m not sure in practice, just I know my DS thinks highly of her. The TA presumably supports the child where he is struggling to cope and my DS has not once complained about this boy being disruptive, although he complains about others regularly. He’s also learnt some sign language and we’ve had discussions about differences in people and acceptance sparked by his innocent questions.

I believe most reception classes have a phased start these days. It's challenging for working parents because the children aren't all full time until after Christmas sometimes, but it means that settling in happens in smaller groups and with initially shorter sessions, reducing the chances of children (with or without sen) being overwhelmed.

If that's done properly the children should be a lot calmer on ordinary school days than when all chucked in together plus parents on an introductory day - there must have been well over 60 people there if each child in an over subscribed class had a parent (even worse of some treated it as an "event" and both parents went) plus a teacher and TA!

No wonder children were overwhelmed - the ones flapping and not talking probably weren't all non verbal, quite possibly some were NT averagely developing just not used to such busy situations!

No, 'most' schools don't have a staggered start - some do. And it's certainly not until Christmas - if they do it, it's for the first few weeks only.

Setting aside your views on this...

1. Any school your dc attends could be exactly the same. There will always be children with high level needs in a primary class. How will you know if you choose a different one? They will not tell you this when you apply.
2. The school will work out a way of managing these children once they get to know them. Being in such a busy unfamiliar environment will have been very hard for those kids. Things will settle down.
3. You will not know which kids have or are likely to get an ehcp in this new class. This would not have been published in the school's previous data.

@RachelSq ’or possibly just by not being ignorant to the other children’. It really isn’t ignorant of a TA to only support the child they have been assigned to. I had battles in secondary school as my DS support was shared with others which was detrimental to him.

This is a sensible way of framing it.
There will be children with needs in every school.
Schools don't really get enough support full stop. Support for SEN kids can take a while to identify and apply for.
However, I don't think it's unreasonable to be concerned about how a classroom overall is going to work for your own child. Your first session not going great would be off putting but it's an overwhelming situation for a lot of children. I wouldn't judge the school on that visit alone.

@Unbored Complimenting another child on their artwork, saying hello or talking to them in group work is hardly detrimental to a SEN child.

I bet you would be the first to complain if your child was being ostracised by others because they weren’t allowed to mingle with the rest of the class because that would involve other class members having interactions with “their” TA.

I get you have had to fight hard for your child, but suggesting a TA should outright ignore 4/5/6 year olds and not interact with them at all is a crazy idea - it would modelling all the wrong behaviour to “their” SEN child if they totally blanked everyone else.

@RachelSq my DS had an amazing 1-1 in primary who understood DSs needs and was really intuitive. Of course she interacted with the other children and they loved to be grouped with DS as they knew they would get time with her.

In secondary school the 1-1 was there for DS but there were other children with needs and the support was shared when it shouldn’t have been and was really detrimental to DS. This is becoming more common as there are many children with needs and not enough staff so the support is shared meaning everyone loses.

Of course the OP is allowed to be worried about her child’s safety if she witnessed children with special needs struggling to cope and lashing out. I’d feel exactly the same.

My friends son had ASD, it didn’t become apparent how severe until he started reception, he couldn’t cope and would have violent outbursts and unfortunately a number of the other children and teachers were injured. He was put on a reduced timetable and now has got a place in a special school, it’s the best outcome for all involved.

Yes your son will be overlooked probably. Unfortunately class sizes and funding being what they are the teachers and support staff will spend much more time with SEND students and dealing with poor behaviour than with the child with no needs who is following instruction. That's our school system. If you don't want that you should seriously consider what the next 11 years will look like.

@Unbored , your experience in primary is exactly what the OP (and hence I) am discussing - in secondary of course other children won’t be so innocently needy of an assigned TA and that’s a totally different topic.

@RachelSq My DSs experience of primary school support is unfortunately not the norm - I thought it was as it’s all I knew. His experience of secondary is more common in both secondary and primary. In fact the boy piggybacking DSs support in secondary was in DSs primary school where he had received no 1-1 support despite desperately needing it.