Private or State?

[sillygooses]

TLDR/ Pros and cons of state vs independent primary schools? Personal experiences would be great!

DD will be starting primary school in September 2023, so we’re really starting to think seriously now about where we would like her to go. Our local state schools either aren’t great (not very positive Ofsted reports or reviews from parents), or are tiny village schools for which we are barely in the catchment area and they are so oversubscribed I think getting a place is so unlikely!

I recently stumbled upon an ad for a private/independent school that’s right in the middle of where we live and where I work and now we’re really considering it. It’s not something we’ve really thought about before but I think that with a bit of cutting back we could afford it (of course I would have to properly look at the numbers but I think it seems doable). The fees include wraparound care, which is something that we would have to pay for anyway as I work long shifts. Like all parents, I just want the best for my child and it seems like our two options are an “inadequate” state school or a good independent school.

Really I’m just looking for anyone who can share a similar experience or can weigh in in any way! Would you/did you send your child(ren) to private school? If so, do you think you made the right decision? On the other hand, did your child go to a poorly performing school and thrive there?

For context, both myself and DDs Dad were state educated, we are separated and DDs Dad is on NMW and I earn just above. Our outgoings are relatively low hence why we think we may be able to find the money despite not being high earners!

DS will be attending an independent school. He's starting Reception after the summer holidays.
Our local school is a large 4-form-entry primary. It would take him about 20 minutes to walk there from our house. The school he will be attending is a 30-minute drive on a good day but I have to do the journey anyway, regardless of which school he's attending.
We never considered the local school, though. DS is bilingual and his independent school will teach in both of his languages. It's an all day school and he'll be supervised from 7.30am until 6pm, if needed. The overall academic expectations are higher and I just think it will give him more opportunities. (He can still transfer to a state grammar school afterwards, if he doesn't want to stay there for secondary.)
We can cover the fees. It's cheaper than nursery. I got most of his uniform second-hand. It's quite common and loads of people just pass things on.

Just be aware of all the extra costs involved in private education and the fees increasing. We earns in £60k bracket when DD's were that age and no way could we afford it. One did attend private 6th form and the extras bill was almost as high as the fees some terms (she had a bursary so reduced fees)

Once you start down the private route it is difficult to move to state at secondary. In some very specific areas like Kent people do private prep as "crammers for the grammars" but do you have this in your area? Can you also afford the much higher private secondary school fees?

Please could you give me some examples of what the extra fees may be for? We’ve taken into consideration some things, but I’m sure there are others we’ve missed!

Uniform (usually more expensive and extensive than state schools), many school trips, music lessons, exam fees for secondary

Hi OP. We started out at state primary (ofsted outstanding) and moved at the end of year 2 to private. Since we left lots of other families have too - a few to a smaller primary that "requires improvement" - however they're all over the moon with it and the children are thriving there. Just wanted to add this as a note to say ofsted ratings don't always reflect the quality of a school and also that whilst a school may be amazing for some, for others it may not suit them :) so definitely take a look with an open mind.
Things I've noted costwise since moving to private - lots more uniform. Second hand uniform is totally fine though, and actually encouraged.
We just received our fee increase letter for next year - make sure you budget this in. Fees increase incrementally through the classes, but also each year usually to keep up with inflation/all other rising costs.
The other indie we looked at we would have to pay for workbooks, exams, music tuition and trips along with other socials etc. throughout the year. At our school most is included so just check - schools usually make these fees visible on the websites but the school burser should be happy to answer any questions if you call them.
I hope this helps. Don't be afraid to ask all schools you are considering any and all questions you have - I wish we had asked more at the start.

Sorry OP, but on your salaries I think this is a bonkers idea unless you can get a significant bursary.I just looked up NMW and the take home is £1470/month. You say you take home a bit more. At DCs prep school the fees are £4k/term. So you’ll each have to spend 1/3 of your take home to cover it before you’ve forked out for extras, leaving you with £1000/month to live off. You say your outgoings are minimal, but unless you are both living mortgage free in properties you own a) I’m not sure this is doable and b)you have no idea how this might change. Have you budgeted for 5% fee rise/year? You’ll be looking at at least £6k/term by age 11.
Also, I’m not sure it’s worth it. My DC started in the local state and are now in a prep. We moved them because one was unhappy and the other was bored, but we also moved house. All our state options were classified as ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’. They (and we)have hugely missed out on making local friends and integrating in the community because they don’t go to the local school. But, as time passes I’m less and less convinced that, assuming your options aren’t failing schools in sink estates, it is worth the money (and we do love their school). Yes, they get lots of extra opportunities, yes they get to network, but what long term difference does it make? I was privately educated and not one of my contemporaries can afford to send their own DC to private school. Many have gone on to be teachers, police officers, physios, nurses……all very noble professions, but not one of them needs £250k spent on pre university education. It would be interesting to know if at age 25 they would have preferred that £250k to have been gifted as a house deposit.
I honestly think you’d be better spending some of the money on out of school activities and a tutor and putting the rest in a savings account. I certainly wouldn’t be making the sort of sacrifices you’d have to make to make this work.
I assume you aren’t planning on having any more?
I’m not trying to be harsh, just realistic.

@Trainfromredhill

It completely depends what school you're talking about, not all private schools are equal, especially at prep level. Some are shockingly bad and represent a complete waste of money.

In my opinion it's only worth sending your child to prep (private primary school) on a low salary if :

a) It's a nationally outstanding prep that feeds (or is part of) amazing senior schools that are nationally recognised for their excellence. (i.e its worth the money and sacrifice as it delivers an amazing education proved in the destinations of those that leave there).

b) The school provides bursaries for low income families from 7+ ( very few preps do, and they tend to be elite ones).

Under any other circumstance it's not really worth it. My wife works at a very famous boys day public school and there are many parents sending their boys to the school on a wing and a prayer (financially speaking) and hoping bursaries and scholarships will somehow see them through, the school has a formidable reputation and it delivers. These less wealthy aspirational parents (which I count myself as one coming from a state school, working class background, now in a middle classed job) would be mad to do this with a middle of the road public school.

Private all the way. There is no comparison.

Look at how the fees staircase up. Often the fees in reception, y1&y2 are so low it's almost the same as what you were paying for nursery. By y8 it can be double.

Look at how sustainable your current low-outgoings budget is. Will it work as well with a 10yo as with a 3yo?

If you are sure it will work long term then go for it.

@DaddyPhD . My ‘is it worth it’ question isnt so much about about whether the fees justify the education or the facilities, the a level results or the university place gained, it’s about what the kids at the school do as adults. My siblings and I all went to different private schools. So few privately educated children actually go on to forge a career in a high paying sector, ie sufficiently high paying to be able to send their own kids to an independent. If you want your DC to have a better schooling experience then private is without a doubt the better choice, but if you think you are improving your child’s likelihood of earning more as an adult I think you’ll be highly disappointed.

I think you could run into real difficulties here as it really doesn't sound like you have enough money,

We have friends in a much better financial situation than you. Their school fees have just been raised 25% for September and they are struggling. One is now ill and can't work and they are really up against it. They may have to take their daughter out but where we live there is a feeder system so they will struggle to get a place.

I have had children at both private and state and have also attended both myself and taught. There are pros and cons to both and ultimately it depends on the school.

I really think you need to throughly look into all the state options you have.... or even move closer to one that you like.

This depends where you live and what your priorities are though, surely?

hi @Trainfromredhill

I agree, a great education doesn't mean a well paid job. I work in academia (in the humanities) , its chock full of elite public school educated people , all earning a pittance, but we all love what we're doing.

The system we have in the UK where so many of the best schools are private, is awful. For the OP if their DD follows their dreams in an occupation that doesn't pay well, her grandchildren will be in the same boat.

We are sending our DD to private school but my partner is from an established middle class family. She can 'look forward' to large inheritances of property from relatively wealthy parents - and so many kids are being educated privately with legacy from grandparents.

When I was at university a few friends I still have now, enjoyed having trusts set up by their ancestors for deposits for fees, university and/or buying their first house / flat, and so the 'leg up' perpetuates.

So while you have many privately educated people in low paying jobs, they still may have family legacies that pay for their children's fees.

Our DD starts reception this September coming. We have opted for a state primary education to enable her to have local friendships and also because she is an only child. Don't write off state, go and have a look you may be pleasantly surprised.

Our joint earnings are around £150k a year, but we have opened a school pot save for private secondary to ensure that we can cover everything financially. Our local comp hasn't got the best reputation and I'd rather save our money for secondary when she will be studying for exams etc.

My DD is 17 she has been privately educated sine age 3.
However she was left a substantial sum by her DG which is why we can afford it.
School fees start small then ramp up so much in the following years - then you have uniform, school trips (usually much more expensive) lunches, classes which the rest of the class do (piano, music and drama, ballet etc) which if your DC doesn't participate in she will be the odd one out.
My dd is 17 now and in sixth form, fees are in excess of £17000 per year.
Whilst I don't regret sending her to private school in the least, one drawback is her school friends don't live locally so her social life is limited.
On minimum wage to be frank you won't be able to pay the fees and other costs over the following years, can you look at whether the school offers bursaries/grants to low income families?

I’ve had DD at both State and private. Schools vary hugely so it depends what the specific schools near you are like.

The private uniform costs us about £600 / year. There are lots of overseas expensive trips but most children don’t go on them (we don’t). There are also a few compulsory UK trips which just get added to the bill without discussion eg £70 for a daytrip to an activity centre.

What is particularly annoying is when uniform gets lost, eg you buy a £90 blazer, some other child absent-mindedly takes it from your child’s peg and forgets to return it until year end, so you’ve had to buy another £90 blazer.

I adore the private school, mostly because the teachers are so happy and relaxed and there are no disruptive kids ruining the lesson. It is better for sure. But only you know if you can afford it. Perhaps consider State for reception year, try it out (while saving money) then if not happy move your child in year 1/2?

Other option is to move house so you’re near an outstanding State primary, moving house is a lot cheaper than private school.

At our school about half the year go on to private secondary schools and the other half move to State schools. Private isn’t a ‘crammar for grammar’ as someone upthread suggested, rather it has shaped the child as they grow in very positive ways. By age 11 the children are confident, articulate, disciplined, have a solid grounding in all subjects and know the value of working hard.

Do remember as well that energy/food costs are shooting up and the NHS has collapsed. If I had to choose between private school and private health insurance I’d choose the health insurance.

PS on your income, if you’re not a homeowner, your child might qualify for a massive bursary / free place. Ask. And treat every conversation with the school as if it were a job interview - be pleasant and calm etc.

I think you would really struggle on your income. Few preps offer bursaries before age 7. It might be worth looking at state till 7 then look around to see if you you can find somewhere that offers fee assistance.

Extras we paid for included equipment, trips, transport to sports, fees to professional bodies eg for sport, events at school and the uniform was very expensive with even prescribed shoes

@DaddyPhD . That was exactly the point I was trying to make. DH and I earn extremely good salaries.(both self made, no family money). We can afford the school fees AND the house deposit for our children. I just worry about people who make huge sacrifices to send their children to independent schools who think that this will improve their childrens life chances . For some it will. But the vast majority will end up in average jobs and if there isn’t family money to fall back on they won’t be able to perpetuate the lifestyle.
it does depend on where you live and the state schools available to you, but I still maintain if a child comes from a supportive family they can do well in an ok state school.

private school kids need to get higher grades than (most) state school kids.
most private school kids I know are tutored - a substantial additional cost.
at primary level, I really really don't see the point...

@Trainfromredhill

I agree completely.

The trouble is people like me ( state school educated) look at any profession be it academia, investment banking, politics, law even acting and see the stranglehold public schools have them, then fear for their children reaching their full potential kicks in. It's much easier to see when your state school educated, its something that's almost invisible (I've noticed) with my privately educated friends and colleagues.

There are only a handful of schools that are worth the bother (in my opinion) and even then it's debatable. There is of course the soft skills a school like say Westminster or St Pauls girls give a child, I've always noted the inner confidence most of my famous public school educated friends and colleagues have, they exude it, something that is absent in most state and grammar school educated people.

We live in a village and our local school has a very poor reputation for pastoral care. Moving was not an option at the time, so we put our son into a private school at three. We were not really thinking he would be there for his entire school career, but it is a wonderful school and he adores it, so now we don't feel like we can move him.

We earn more than you and we do have to sacrifice to pay for school. I think it will put a massive strain on you without a bursary.

@sunshineandsuddenshowers

As someone who has worked for a university for years, it's not the case private schools are asked for higher grades, its the whole package. Your parents education comes into it, and a whole set of other criteria , because the context is crucial.

When a kid from Eton turns up at our university for admissions of course we expect high standards. But we won't judge a scholarship kid from a council estate the same as someone whose dad was a millionaire and went to Oxford, that would be bonkers.
When a kid from a sink estate, and a failing comp, in a deprived part of North East England applies , and the school only sends only a handful of kids to university if any, how on Earth can the university be expected to judge that kid the same??
One child had facilities that would rival some universities, the other might have a school with no music facilities and a revolving door of supply teachers and unruly kids on the verge of exclusion.

Middle classed, university educated parents sending their child to an outstanding state school won't put you ahead of the same type of parents who scrapes their kid through a private school.