Private or State?

[sillygooses]

TLDR/ Pros and cons of state vs independent primary schools? Personal experiences would be great!

DD will be starting primary school in September 2023, so we’re really starting to think seriously now about where we would like her to go. Our local state schools either aren’t great (not very positive Ofsted reports or reviews from parents), or are tiny village schools for which we are barely in the catchment area and they are so oversubscribed I think getting a place is so unlikely!

I recently stumbled upon an ad for a private/independent school that’s right in the middle of where we live and where I work and now we’re really considering it. It’s not something we’ve really thought about before but I think that with a bit of cutting back we could afford it (of course I would have to properly look at the numbers but I think it seems doable). The fees include wraparound care, which is something that we would have to pay for anyway as I work long shifts. Like all parents, I just want the best for my child and it seems like our two options are an “inadequate” state school or a good independent school.

Really I’m just looking for anyone who can share a similar experience or can weigh in in any way! Would you/did you send your child(ren) to private school? If so, do you think you made the right decision? On the other hand, did your child go to a poorly performing school and thrive there?

For context, both myself and DDs Dad were state educated, we are separated and DDs Dad is on NMW and I earn just above. Our outgoings are relatively low hence why we think we may be able to find the money despite not being high earners!

The uniform is so expensive! Even just for pre prep: pinafore is £35, blouse £30, cardigan £25, rucksack £30, art smock £30, raincoat £28, puffa coat £50. Then the PE kit- bottoms £20, sweatshirt £15, polo £10, shorts £10, football socks £6, baseball cap £7, swimming cap £9, swimsuit £15, PE kit bag £10, football boot bag £15. Shin pads, mouth guard (for hockey), football boots and white trainers can be bought wherever you like. Another £60 for the ballet uniform that can only be bought from the RAD shop. Wellies for outdoor learning. General school shoes, tights, socks. This only goes up as they get older.

Then the holidays are short so you need to sort camps. Our school does an activity week but charges £59 per day for this. All the kids do clubs, not the after school extra wrap around, but hobby clubs and these are another £50-65 a term. Most of the kids do music lessons through school- £25 a time. £15 at short notice because they’re going on the bus to a local garden. Etc etc.

Then there’s fee increased. First 2 terms of reception we got the 15 hours early years funding. Now that’s ended and on top of that the fee increase this year to next is 10% because of inflation.

We went State Primary and Private Secondary as we had a good State Primary option.
Right decision for us, saved us lots of money, the DC have a diverse set of friends and were certainly more streetwise and aware of the wider world than most of their Y7 peers. There was no attainment gap either

Just seen that you are low earners, don’t do it in that case
It will be too stressful

I definitely haven’t written off any of the schools - we will go to visit everywhere we can!

Are there any questions in particular that you wish you had asked?

Everyone's priorities will be different, but I wish we'd asked about what opportunities each child had to represent in sport, policies on healthy eating/exercise (only the best* kids got to participate and there was a lot of pushing of chocolate/sweets that were impossible to avoid). The main thing I wish we had focused on was the pastoral side - how they manage behaviour and bullying. Unfortunately it was only after DS became the target of bullying that we realised their pastoral policies were really poor. I realise these may seem obvious things but we trusted it was all ok, with the school being outstanding.
Like I say, work out what you feel makes a good school and a happy environment for your child and their individual needs and ask any questions you need. Sorry if that wasn't helpful at all 😳As PPs have said also ask about any bursaries available if you are considering private as they aren't always advertised.

I have had one child in private and two in state. We found that the private school had much nicer uniform and longer wrap-around care, and at primary level the teaching of individual subjects like history, geography and French seemed more structured. School functions were nicer: coffee and tea served and perhaps wine in the evenings.

At the state school though, the maths, English and science were just as good. The dc all got similar 11+ results and the difference in quality of academics at secondary was minimal (state grammar vs private). More exotic sports and expensive uniform and kit at private but actually the fundamentals were similar. I don't think that private is worth it from reception. If you're tight for cash then stick to state until KS2. Just make sure you take responsibility for your dc's maths and reading and ensure they are encouraged at home and they'll be fine.

@DaddyPhD i also work at a university, and of course, it’s never cut and dried. A child from Westminster Harris will be judged differently from a child from an RI school
that’s never sent anyone to Oxbridge. BUT in the middle, private school children without scholarships are expected to achieve higher grades than those from the majority of non-selective state schools.

I wouldn't do it if you can just about afford it now.

My DPs kindly pay DS school fees and they have gone up by more than inflation ( Generally 5%) each year for the past few years. Senior school costs significantly more than junior.

We're in Scotland and private school DCs need to achieve higher grades than state ones to get into the (free for now) Scottish universities. Probably fair enough in normal years, but due to covid grade inflation over the last couple of years, many of my friends DCs have been unable to get university places simply because they went to private school.

I'd start off with state and move if you're unhappy.

Once you go private, it's difficult to switch to state. I have a friend who's daughters fees started at 12k and now 40k (ten years on, so 14 years old now). The fees are paid for by grandparents in this instance.

I would always give state a chance first. Private school fees can be hugely stressful. The extras can add on 3k a year.

Thanks for all of your input! Will try to address everything!

The school we’re interested in has fees of £3k/term for their lower school and £5k/term for upper school (obviously these are approximate and I understand that they are likely to increase, as everything does!)

I wouldn’t be considering private education as an option if I didn’t think I could afford it - it’s no different to the nursery fees we’ve been paying for years!

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by missing out on local friends/integrating within the community?

And no, I don’t plan on having anymore children!

@sunshineandsuddenshowers

BUT in the middle, private school children without scholarships are expected to achieve higher grades than those from the majority of non-selective state schools.

The majority of private schools gave grade inflation compared to the majority of non-selective state schools and have superior class numbers, facilities and superior support structures, so of course we should expect them to achieve higher grades. If the schools are equal - we shouldn't.

How oversubscribed is the private school? Is there a long waiting list for places?

If there isn't I would be tempted to start in state school but save the equivalent of school fees each month. If you decide to move DC a little later you a) have a buffer built up for fees and b) will have a realistic idea of how easily you can live once you've paid for fees.

If it turns out that the state schools are actually ok you haven't lost anything but, as a PP said, once you go down the private route it can be quite difficult to switch back.

@DaddyPhD i think we are agreeing w each other that this difference is right and fair! And that although you can to an extent buy higher grades via private schooling, those grades are - correctly - judged differently by canny universities.

nb I know kids who have made the private to state transition at both sixth form and uni who have really crashed and burned, as they have been so used to being pushed and cosseted, and to having all their gaps identified and filled for them. Really did seem as though their achievements a private school didn’t stand up in a breeze…

@sunshineandsuddenshowers

Apologies, yes we are agreeing with each other!

I think one of the 'best' things about a private education is the confidence it gives pupils, this can translate to better interviews, be that universities or jobs. It provides an atmosphere where applying to a Russell group Uni is normal and social capital.

For some people this is invaluable. For aspirational working class parents, private school is a huge struggle, but they know they are lifting their children (effectively) into the middle class, even if their children don't earn a huge salary, the majority of private school leavers gain middle classed jobs.

I went both private (full border) and state. Private was lovely however does not mean you will excell in a future career. Most of the students didn't "fly" career wise later on in life. It really is down to the child, motivation, parental support and also career guidance! Some great experiences private. A lot more extra costs and to keep up with the Jones so to speak. I know people from state schools who have excelled and become entrepreneurs, millionaires, CEO's etc but again lovely supportive families and career guidance. I was torn private or state for mine. We opted state as lucky to have very good schools and we wanted the family to live and children to have holidays and days out which we wouldn't be able to do going private. To sum it up they won't turn out any better than if they went private to state. But facilities and all round private is lovely. State also makes them more street wise and worldly wise which they will have for life. You can't teach that. What you do for one child you have to do for them all in my opinion so the out for all your children. You could push for scholarships but again think a lot get offered rhsi just to get them in and it's really only 10% off the fees! Teachers and education is better private, however if they fall behind the support is better in state private it's expected. Agree you could go private for primary then aim to go for 11+ and get into a grammar school but the students there are like machines and most have been tutored since age 3 (not to stereotype) Again an option as passed 11+ but I wanted my child to be happy, not struggle to keep up and be miserable at school. Boarding was fun, had amazing friends, experiences, made me very independent however not career wise it just wasn't in me sadly. It really is down to the child 😕 hope this helps you and good luck. As a parent go with your gut it's never wrong especially with schools x

@sillygooses
Can you elaborate more on what you mean by missing out on local friends/integrating within the community?

We live in a village without a primary school. Almost all the kids go to the local school in the next village. My DC have some local friends, but with one exception it’s always effort. Girls from the local school the same age as DD will be playing next door and never invite dd to play. We know all the parents, and they will always accept if I instigate a play date but rarely instigate themselves. It doesn’t help that we leave for school at 7.30am and are rarely home before 5pm, whereas these families lift share, leave at 8.30 and are home by 3.30. DH and I rarely get invited to social events (I mean BBQs in people’s gardens or an evening drink - I’m not expecting a personal invite to the village fair!!)….because , again, it’s effort to contact us, rather than mentioning at the school gate.
Some of it is undoubtedly because there is a stigma attached to private schools…remember 93% of the population don’t go to one. Having gone to one myself I know this from
personal experience. One mum actually said to me about our current set up ‘the local school is so good…..why would you pay?’ DD has also been bullied at an outside school club for going to a private school. And I spend my life in the car. Both DC have friends that live 40 minutes away.
we still love their school.