Denied leave to visit grandparent who is terminally ill

[divvin88]

Hi all,

Wanted to find out what are my options in a tricky situation that we are facing.

My father in law was diagnosed with cancer 2 years back. Recently he had a massive haemorrhage due to cancer complications and was in a critical condition for over two weeks. He is based in India. So our family had to rush to India in that situation not knowing if he will survive. We applied for absence from school for my 6 year old daughter. Last week we got a letter from the school saying the leave has not been authorised and that we will be fined. To top it, we also received a letter stating that my daughter does not meet attendance etc. Now, I want to understand if a kids grandfather is in critical condition and if the kid has to travel along with the family to be with him in his last days is that not an exceptional circumstance. If this does not qualify as exceptional what does? The school head teachers lack of humanity has really shocked us and we want to take this matter legally as we think we have been fined unfairly. So wanted to know if anyone has been in a similar situation and if so what can be done to right this injustice.

That’s utter nonsense. Do you work in a school? Who has told you that? It’s not true. I’m an Ofsted inspector btw

It's up to the LA to decide, but each day's absence is potentially a separate offence and can attract its own fixed penalty notice. So it absolutely can be per day, and some councils operate on that basis.

Fines for not going to school but going to a dying relative? The UK seems to get stranger all the time. What happens if you don't pay? Does your child get kicked out? ( am in Australia - this seems very strange) . ALso so odd after Covid when most kids missed so much school anyway.

I dont think it was necessary for the whole family to go either.

@marvellousmaple if you don’t pay the fine you will be taken to court (but not by the school, they don’t administer the fine)

When my father in law was dying I went with my husband to support/ comfort him!

If you are an ofsted inspector then you will be 100% aware that many of your coworkers are irrational, unrealistic, ignorant bullies. I’m not saying you are, but you must know that many others are.

who has told us that about absence?

Ofsted inspectors.

not one, once, but many, repeatedly, across several inspections across several schools

and I’ve witnessed a head lose his job over exactly this issue

You weren't denied, you went anyway. It wasn't a request but a fait accompli which has backfired. Why has your dc attendance otherwise been so low? There is a risk she could lose her place if you take extended periods off in termtime.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor not everyone can get time off work for this either (certainly not paid time off)

If we've learned anything over the past couple of years it's that family comes first and is much more important than a couple of weeks in school for a six year old.

Pay the fine because it's the rules but know that you did the right thing for your family

The whole system is ridiculous. Of course if a child was in private school, there would be no fine at all.

Hope you are ok OP.

That's crazy. A child in my daughters class had to go to Pakistan suddenly for the same reason. I know because the class were discussing it and the teacher was asking them to think about the child and his family at this difficult time. We aren't in the UK though so a bit of a different attitude to this type of thing.

The letter re low absence could have been sent while OP was already abroad. God there are some strange replies here. Can’t take a bit of time out of school to visit a dying relative, age 6! 🙄

Op if it makes you laugh, DH and I got married overseas in his home country. Dc was 4 (!!!!!) and the head only authorised 3 days leave. Two for travel, to NZ, and one for the wedding 😂 luckily we didn’t get fined as he wasn’t 5 yet 🙈

I'd have just gone and fought the fine with the local authority (not the school) on our return, preferably with a copy of the death certificate.

@Changedagain876 the school policy probably stipulated that the HT could authorise that a child could have 3 days off for parents’ wedding.

And you might not get fined for taking children out during term time at a private school but you would still have to pay fees. And private schools can charge you a whole terms fee if you don’t give the correct notice period of leaving the school

It is sad when a child isn’t allowed to go and see their grand parents for what looked like the last time because … they’re a child so somehow a week at school matters more.

Its sad when someone is told that they are not needed to go and see IL for what looked like the last time because … they’re not your family so it’s not important.

Its sad when someone is told that they should just go alone to see a parent for what looks like the last time because … they should be able to cope alone/will have support there anyway (of people who will be grieving/worried just as much…) so why would they need their partner at their side.

All down to this idea that we should all be able to cope with everything alone or somehow you’re not good enough.

@Thebeastofsleep the FIL hasn’t died

I'm sorry for your loss.

There was a fascinating thread on twitter this week on this subject posted by a magistrate. He deals with the fines when they go to appeal. He seems to mainly find in favour of the parents. I found it really interesting. He's called the secret magistrate @secretJPUk if you want to have a look at what happens when local authorities take parents to court over attendance. Some really awful stories on there.

I think it depends on your relationship with the school as to how you pursue this. If you're really happy with the school, you'll be making a rod for your own back by forcing the issue. However, I'm a teacher and my HT would have given exceptional circumstances as a reason in your situation. So I'd be inclined to ask for their reasons.
It does depend on her attendance before you went as well though, as rightly or wrongly, it could cloud their perceptions as to how necessary the trip was.

@toomuchlaundry they didn’t know that when they left though. They went there because the RISK of him dying very soon was HIGH. Which seeing the circumstances is fair enough Id say.

Children have missed a lot of school over the pandemic. And attendance still isn’t back to pre pandemic levels. It does have an impact. And you mentioned your daughter’s attendance is already poor.

I think everyone / most people can understand the desire to be with a dying close family member. I’d probably have done the same. I’m glad your FIL rallied. Does that mean you’ll take your daughter again when his condition worsens again?

I think accusing the HT of prejudice is a bit strong. In fact they are probably trying to apply the rules consistently to everyone.

if you can afford to (and I guess you can as flights to India aren’t cheap I know) I’d just pay the fine. You surely don’t need the extra stress of taking legal action.

As PP says, it's out of the school's hands as to whether it's authorised or not, but it's down to the school to impose the fine.

I am taking my son out of school in Jan for a week (also to see family in India as it happens). They've said they can't authorise them absence but won't impose a fine. I'm fine with that

It is sad when a child isn’t allowed to go and see their grand parents for what looked like the last time because … they’re a child so somehow a week at school matters more.

I've lived it - I was that child that couldn't go and see relatives because they were overseas and people couldn't get time off work.

Nobody's saying it's not sad, but it's life. Most people wouldn't be able to take two weeks off work to fly to India at the last minute - being able to do that is a luxury in itself.

Its sad when someone is told that they are not needed to go and see IL for what looked like the last time because … they’re not your family so it’s not important.

It's not about them not being family, most people have to prioritise and generally you prioritise blood relatives over in-laws. I don't know any workplace that would allow you to drop everything and take two weeks off because your in-laws aren't very well.

Its sad when someone is told that they should just go alone to see a parent for what looks like the last time because … they should be able to cope alone/will have support there anyway (of people who will be grieving/worried just as much…) so why would they need their partner at their side.

Because the reality is most people can't drop everything and go overseas or to visit dying relatives for an indefinite period of time. You can keep repeating how sad it is, but it's the reality for millions of people.

All down to this idea that we should all be able to cope with everything alone or somehow you’re not good enough.

Nothing to do with "not being good enough". You don't need to be with someone in person to provide support.

Actually I don't think that's right from what I've just read - it's what my son's secondary told me.
I don't mind - we're going anyway, I just wanted to know whether I needed to add a fine to the expense.

He'll miss 5 days of school in year 9.
He has never been to India and seen his family there, and with the older generation becoming ill or dying I think it's important.