If you live in a grammar school area...

[drspouse]

We are professionals living in a grammar school area; our DCs are adopted and DS is 10 and just starting at a specialist school that is ages 10 through 16, and unaware that the 11+ exists, except that his one or two friends are busy with tutoring, except he doesn't know they are being tutored, just that they are busy. The GS are single sex and both DCs know we'd prefer them to go to mixed schools.
Now DD is nearing the end of Y3 and lots of parents get their children tutored starting in Y4. There is no way on this earth DD would pass the 11+ (she is just about being moved off "extra help" with English and still has it with Maths) but she is already telling me A, B and C are "going to grammar school". So far luckily this has been boys - but what do you tell your DCs if you are NOT doing the 11+ because there is no point (and you don't like the system particularly, also)?
DD already tells me that B knows more than she does and is "really clever" (I suspect B has difficulty in keeping his opinions about himself to himself, TBH!)

To make matters worse, her best female friend is likely to pass easily without tuition (she knew what mean, median and mode were in Y1) and I am expecting a slew of "ooh, it's so hard whether to tutor or not" moans from other parents in the coming months (rather like the "so, what book band is your DC on" in Reception...)

I live in an area where some go to grammar and others to the comp.
My kids knew that grammar was for smart kids but were happy to go to the comp with a big proportion of their class. They were aware that grammar meant taking a bus to school vs walking and 11+ meant tuition but did not ask to do it. It is sad saying goodbye at the end of year 6 but they make friends in y7.

Oh, I'm pretty sure my DD will enjoy comp (thankfully at least adoption means we get any one we choose, though it's going to be a bus ride I suspect and the grammar is really close) but it's more the next couple of years - with the other children talking about how clever they are/what marks they are getting.
It's so young for this, too. I did the 11+ (it was a thing in my area though I effectively went out of area to the school) and didn't do anything about it till I was 10, with the exam being just before my 11th birthday which is after Christmas. Now they are getting tuition when some of them are just 8.

(Sorry, to clarify the best comp for her is unlikely to be one of the two nearest - one is very big and not very nurturing, and the other has a reputation for trying to be nurturing but actually being quite rough. She is likely to go to a much further more rural comp which has a reputation for being very nurturing. A few children from our area go there each year, so she'll meet them on the bus, but it's unlikely she'll know any from her school).

<Waves at fellow adopter>

Can you just talk up the mixed school & pastoral care? As in 'Mum & Dad want a mixed school with good pastoral so we're not bothering with the 11+'?

I agree it is very hard when other kids are happy to broadcast their ability at the expense of your own less able DC. Mine suffered from it too in primary, and we are in an all-comp area.

Can you just talk up the mixed school & pastoral care?
Good idea - I'm pretty sure she'll love it when she gets there, but it's a bit early for an open day - unusually it also teaches a language from her home country which DS is learning on Duolingo so hopefully we can start her on that really gently and she can tell everyone how clever she is for knowing that!

I did an awful lot of 'different schools suit different children' commenting to both my DDs and other parents.
But that language thing sounds a great thing to talk up 'oh, I'm thinking of going to X as it teaches mandarin (or whatever)'.

Going against the grain here, but if Dd very much wants to try for the 11+, I think you should give her the opportunity. If your all grammar county begins with K then often children can go to grammar school even of they haven't passed. Their is also currently a massive push for PP children in grammar school. OTOH if she's not borhered then follow other's advice.

Hi from another adopter. I live in a grammar school area and have one very bright adopted DS who was always destined for the grammar school and one adopted DD who struggles massively at school.

I always explained that we wanted Dd to go to the school where she would feel most comfortable. We explained that at the grammar school they expect you to do everything very quickly but if she goes to a non grammar school she will be able to be in a class with children who work at a similar pace you her.

At her school ( state primary ) it was accepted by the kids that they would all go in different directions after Y6. From a year group of 100 approx 40 would be split between the 4 different grammar schools , 10 or so would pass the entrance test for an out of catchment academy , 10 would get admission to a local out of catchment academy on the basis of a sports or performing arts test ( this is where we went DD) , 35 would go to the local catchment academy and the rest would go private. These numbers would fluctuate - some years over half the year group would go off to a grammar and some years it would be much lower.

It hasn't been easy though.

DD was always a hard working and extremely well behaved child. Even though we used her adopted status to get her into the highly regarded outstanding academy that made all the right noises about how they use the special finding to target to specific needs of adopted children it all ended with us removing her and placing her in a private school from the start of Y9.

Sorry posted before the end! The reason we moved her was that the behaviour of the children in the lower sets that she was in was not great. Classroom behaviour was fine as it was a strict school but outside of the classroom I can only describe the atmosphere as toxic.

I live in a grammar school area and my kids have SEN. Theres not really any bad feelings between kids that do the 11+ and those that dont (in my experience) theres loads of schools round here.
My dd did mention the 11+ a few years ago, and i told her that i wasnt going to put her in for it because even though shes clever, I said i wasnt convinced she was enough of an all rounder.
My mum didnt put me in for the 11+ because she said if i was going to do well, id do well anywhere, and she wanted me to go to the local comp.
I dont think any of my kids have ever given it that much thought

Thankfully we are in the North where there are a few grammar islands rather than Kent! The comps are really comprehensive but there are few private options - but her school is the nearest to the hospital so there are a shed load of doctors' children and the most academic comp is very CofE so "which school" is a hot topic.

She wouldn't want to do the exam - it would be painful and pointless - she gets very frustrated even with the five minutes approx maths app she does with us, and is working at Y2 approx still.

I'm not sure she really gets the concept of choosing a school, the idea of admissions/that you'll be with different children etc. Ironically though no mainstream school will take DS I think he could pass the maths and if they still did NVR he'd sail through that.

I do think she'll be excited about the language though. DS is really coming on with it now but there's no way any school that teaches it is going to take him either, he's about to move school to one that goes from Y5 to Y11 but no pupils ever get higher than 5 in any GCSEs so that's annoying in a completely different way.

Oh if she doesn't want to then I think managing the whole thing is much easier.

It's a pity about your DS, sorry if I am out of line but does he have ASC ? The (Kent) superselective my son attends has several (possibly as much as 10%) neurodiverse boys. So if you think he wpuld thrive there don't rule anything oit.

Some children do go there ...
But mum and dad went to a school like you'll be goi g to and we loved it so we will t bother with the grammar....blah blah

Honestly, your kids still take the lead from you at that age and are very suggestible. If you know you won't bother, turn it around and drip feed for next few years about 'the poor kids having to do extra tests when you get to go to that amazing school' 'who'd want to go to a single sex school?' 'Aren't you lucky you don't have to do tutoring' 'isn't your uniform nicer than that one' etc. I live in a big GS area and depending on school, only a quarter to half a class tend to pass anyway so that's lots not going.

I live near an 11plus area and my daughter is just finishing Y4. Here most people aiming for the 11plus (which includes me) start tutoring at the start of Y5. None of DDs friends have had tuition in Y4 - to me that just seems overkill and risks burnout.

Your descriptions of the school set up are very familiar to me (I went to the big non-nurturing comp…) and I think it’s fine. My niece went through the system a couple of years ago and was not tutored for grammar and no expectations were set. She now goes to the rural comp.

He has ADHD and challenging behaviour and no mainstream primary will take him.
He wouldn't pass the English anyway (he has dyspraxia so has probably written 1/10 of the volume that most children will have written at his age, and gets too frustrated to use a keyboard, so it's not worth trying).

@NaturalBlondeYeahRight hopefully you are right! She is very suggestible.
@BlackLambAndGreyFalcon I totally agree but so many are being tutored (which autocorrect changed to tortured) in Y4.

Unfortunately we both went to grammars (we are old, DH old enough for universal grammar and I was in an area where you could go out of district).

I wonder if you live in the same city as me.

I think you just focus that parents pick the right school for their child and Grammar isn't the best choice for everyone. TBH if your DC needs 2 years tutoring to get in it's not really the right school for them either!

As someone that lives in an area without any grammar schools I'd urge you to enter your child! Granted, there's sometimes little to tell between the comprehensive and grammars in some areas but some comprehensives leave a lot to be desired. Around here, when the grammar's closed in the 1970s, they all converted into private schools and are hence the preserve of the solicitors, accountants and well-paid civil servants. If there's any chance that you can get that level of education for free then IMO you'd be mad not to snatch it with both hands!

I just posted this link on another thread but this list of grammar schools (and details about their tests, practice papers etc) is a good place to start:

www.sats-papers.co.uk/11-plus-papers/

I think I have previously worked out that I do, @RandomMess

@sherbsy that is really NOT helpful. If your child is in the bottom 10% of the class and doing Maths at a Y2 level at the end of Y3, it would be two years of pain and tears for nothing.
(Plus, stories of gender indoctrination at both the boys' and girls' grammars don't fill me with encouragement anyway. DS is oblivious to all trends so would be fine, but DD is, as I say, very suggestible).

@sherbsy Have you read the OP's posts? Her DC is currently 2 years behind in maths, and she has found a comp she thinks will suit her. Grammar schools are not the be all and end all of education. The OP's DC needs a school that lets her be with others of a similar ability, and to go at a pace suitable for her, with good pastoral care. Not a grammar school!

x-post, and sorry 1 year behind.

Dont be ridiculous
Why put your child through a potentially stressful process when you know they won’t get a place in a school that wouldn’t suit them in any case?

Wow, "tutoring" kids to pass the 11+ is a thing nowadays? When I was a child the 11+ decided it you were academic enough to go to a GS, surely that's the point of them instead of training your child to pass a test and then potentially struggle through secondary school?